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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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hi guys ryan sprague here from somewhere

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in the skies and welcome to a very

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special episode of the show today we're

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going to be going back to episode 50 of

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the podcast where i had the amazing

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opportunity to interview nuclear

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physicist turned ufologist stanton t

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friedman now today is actually the

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anniversary of stanton's passing so i

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thought it would be a very fitting way

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to go back and to look at the life and

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career of this man that inspired so many

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of us in the ufo field he dedicated over

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half a century of his life to

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investigating ufos so truly something to

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aspire to for sure but not only me i've

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invited a bunch of my friends and

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colleagues in the world of podcasting

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and in ufology to also come on here and

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pay their own tributes to stanton as

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well so we're gonna play those tributes

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for you first and then we're gonna dive

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right into the interview i did with

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stanton on episode 50 of summer in the

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skies so i hope you enjoy this and

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remember keep your feet on the ground

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but never stop searching somewhere in

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the skies

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hello to all of you somewhere in the

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skies fans out there thank you so much

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for inviting me to share my thoughts

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about the late but great stanton

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friedman of course thank you to ryan

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sprague for inviting me to do this

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my connection to stanton actually goes

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back to the very beginning

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of the black vault and i'm talking about

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literally before

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day one

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and when i first

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got into the field so to speak but more

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so just as a curious mind

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not someone that aimed to

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actually do something or contribute but

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rather just learn i was 15 years old

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it has now been almost 26 years since

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then not to age myself but i'm getting

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up there

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and i reached out to quite a few people

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that were the

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quote unquote big names in the ufo field

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and i don't need to name them all

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or any of them rather just stanton

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friedman was what was one on that list

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and i was a 15 year old kid to be honest

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with you i didn't expect anybody to

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write me back

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and one of them did and that was stanton

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friedman

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and he talked to me about his research

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he talked to me about mj 12

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and sent me

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at no charge

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a lot of papers that he wrote and

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information that i could use

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and

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i never thought number one he would do

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that but number two remember me

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and that meant so much to me because

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there were there were price tags in the

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sense that he was selling these things

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at conferences and stuff like that but

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for him it wasn't about making even a

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penny

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off of me but rather it was hey kid you

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seem curious here's everything i got

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have fun

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fast forward a couple years

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and i had ran into stanton friedman at a

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conference at this point

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i did make the decision to want to

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contribute and and and create the black

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vault

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never thought that that man would

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remember me and sure enough he did

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not only did he remember me but

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remembered why i wrote

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knew a little bit about what i was doing

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and trying to accomplish and we were

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friends ever since

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because of his detail because of of of

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what some would call nitpicking

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but what i would call

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thoroughness

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that he would look into every single

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corner of a story

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that he would dissect every person every

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place every document every photograph

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every drawing every soil sample you name

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it he would dig in and look at every

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piece of the puzzle

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and i learned from that very early on i

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learned how to be a researcher and a

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investigator by looking

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at how stanton would frame his

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investigations

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i remember one time i got to go to the

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national archives in dc

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with stanton friedman just him and i

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and we sat at a table together and i

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remember he was pulling roswell era

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documents that had never uh seen the

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light of day before and this

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had to go back probably 20 years or so

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and i thought to myself i'm sitting

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next to stanton friedman at the national

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archives watching him

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do his thing

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and that was an

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amazing moment for me just because of of

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the respect i had for him already but

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just to see

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the work that he put in

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here we are in 2022 i can guarantee you

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that most

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researchers nowadays don't put that

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level of work

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into

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the research

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and into

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figuring out the answers

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that many gloss over a lot of the pieces

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to the puzzle just because they think

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they know what the entire picture was

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and i always remember and try to

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remember and try to remind myself

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that stanton friedman was who he was

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because he looked at every single piece

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of the puzzle

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and i've tried to model my work the same

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exact way

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doesn't always make everybody happy

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but it was a a bar that he set

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for the field as a whole and it was up

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to anybody who wanted to jump into the

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arena to try and meet that bar

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the last thing i would want to say about

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stanton away from his research was the

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man himself

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not the gentleman

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that that wrote me when i was 15. that's

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a given he was he was a gentleman

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and someone who would give you

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the time of day if you asked any time of

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the day didn't matter if he was busy he

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seemed to always be there for those who

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wanted to chat with him and you would

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see him at conferences and he would sit

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at his book table and just talk

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from sunrise to sunset he was always

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there and very rarely even took a lunch

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break let alone you you would see an

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empty table

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but more so than that

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i think that

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you look at at his work and

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conversations that he had

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he didn't

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belittle you if you didn't agree with

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him of course he had heated debates over

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the years and of course people got under

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his skin he's human not a god

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but the the the openness that he had to

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hear other people and hear opposing

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views

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was something that he he loved and you

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could tell just by being able to to take

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part in those

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on stage panels i was able to sit next

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to him on many of them he was always

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open to ideas and would never shut

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people down

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he would get heated like anybody as i

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said but he was open to those and i

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think that that we can all even though

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we may not always agree with stanton's

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conclusions and he knew i didn't

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but it didn't matter it was the

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respectful conversation that went along

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with him and the lessons over the years

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that he taught everybody

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i think here in 2022 we can all

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myself included

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look back and go you know what that's

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what this is all about

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talking to other people sharing ideas

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and it doesn't matter at the end of the

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day if they buy into everything that we

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say i say or vice versa but we can have

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the conversation in the process

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that was the person that i knew

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over two decades well over two decades

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that's the man that i miss

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i wish that he was still around for me

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to call on my telephone or him to call

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me and we had amazing conversations over

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the years there's not many people that i

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trust like that

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and how i trusted him

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so he's a man i think we can all look up

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to we don't always have to agree with

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his conclusions

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essentially utilize himself to make his

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own conclusions we can all take a lesson

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from that

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and that's something that i miss and

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that's that's just such a rare gem

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in this field and not something that

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really is prevalent sadly anymore so i

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think about them often and there's a

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reason not only on a personal level but

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a professional level we can all

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learn a lot from him and continue to

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learn from him even though sadly he has

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been gone for

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a couple years now

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we can all learn from that and many more

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people will learn if they take the time

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to look

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that is the stanton friedman i knew i

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got to interview stanton friedman four

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times

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the first time being back in august of

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2005 for the second episode of the

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paranormal podcast before

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anybody knew what a podcast was in each

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and every time i found him insightful

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and delightful and really enjoyed our

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time together so imagine my excitement

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in 2019 when i was asked by george nori

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and his team to go be on a panel

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uh with stanton or at an event with

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stanton that they were doing down in

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columbus ohio uh just south here of of

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cleveland to hop skip and jump down the

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the freeway

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so uh may

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2019 uh i got in my

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uh family truckster and drove down to

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columbus and uh got to meet stanton

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spent a lot of time with him in the

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green room before the event

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and uh you know when he went on stage it

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was just magic and he wowed the crowd

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with his insight with his knowledge with

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his wit

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and

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came off stage uh

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glowing and and yet another big win

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after the event

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i had the privilege to have an after

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event meal with uh stanton and uh

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marianne wienkowski the ghost whisperer

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the person who that series that tv

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series was based on i thought this was

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great you know what i'll do is uh i'll

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let an appropriate amount of time pass

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and i'll get back in touch with stanton

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and really enjoyed i can't say how much

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i enjoyed his

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his uh presentation but also i enjoyed

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the time we got to spend together in the

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green room probably for a couple of

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hours just uh chatting about ufos and

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his thoughts now honestly i'm not even

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sure if he remembered necessarily our

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previous interviews because he gets

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interviewed by so many people but he was

283
00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:50,399
just great so anyway i i thought you

284
00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:53,200
know this will pass uh and i'll let some

285
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:55,760
time pass and i'll get back in touch and

286
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:57,760
we'll have great interview and and

287
00:12:00,389 --> 00:11:59,360
having gotten to know each other a

288
00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:00,399
little bit

289
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:03,600
so uh i was shocked within a couple of

290
00:12:10,069 --> 00:12:06,560
days to open up facebook and see that uh

291
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:10,079
stanton had passed and route back home

292
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:13,600
and uh just such a sad circumstance and

293
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:16,000
i was very sad and very troubled by it

294
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:17,760
it was just such a shock i just seen him

295
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:19,600
a couple of days before

296
00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:21,519
but then i thought about it

297
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:22,480
and

298
00:12:27,750 --> 00:12:25,200
he went out with his boots on he went

299
00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:27,760
out doing what he loved to do

300
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:29,600
he got to speak in front of an

301
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:32,160
enthusiastic crowd and share with him

302
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:35,200
his knowledge and his views

303
00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:39,200
and sold a few books shook a few hands

304
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:42,000
uh just probably the way he would have

305
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:43,519
wanted to go out

306
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:45,519
i only wish we had the opportunity to

307
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:47,680
interview him again and get his thoughts

308
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:49,760
on everything that has happened in the

309
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:52,000
last three years the government ufo

310
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:53,279
report and

311
00:12:56,310 --> 00:12:55,440
and all the kind of infighting going on

312
00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:56,320
about

313
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:57,440
which

314
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,120
route the u.s government is going to

315
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:01,440
take with ufo investigation and so forth

316
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:03,519
but i guess we'll never know

317
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:05,519
but stanton

318
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,160
salute to you sir in one of my episodes

319
00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:10,560
i know i termed him the world's greatest

320
00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:12,000
ufologist

321
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:14,240
and i think that's very apt so stanton

322
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:17,120
friedman thank you for everything you

323
00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:20,240
have contributed to this field and ryan

324
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:22,000
thank you for doing this

325
00:13:26,069 --> 00:13:24,079
very good thing to do very appropriate

326
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,079
for a great man

327
00:13:30,870 --> 00:13:28,720
hi this is earl grey anderson i'm state

328
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:30,880
director of southern california for

329
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:34,880
mufon the mutual ufo network

330
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:37,839
i met stanton friedman once

331
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:40,000
but it was very meaningful

332
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:42,560
um i looked up to stanton i had read

333
00:13:47,030 --> 00:13:45,360
most of everything that he had published

334
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:47,040
when i had met him

335
00:13:54,269 --> 00:13:51,040
and uh i went to the mufon uh symposium

336
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:54,279
that was in irvine california back in

337
00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:57,279
2016 and stanton was one of the keynote

338
00:14:02,389 --> 00:13:58,720
speakers

339
00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:02,399
he was also on multiple panels and

340
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:04,240
you know he he was kind of the the

341
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:06,320
ultimate ufologist

342
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:08,800
uh those of us that were serious about

343
00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:10,639
the phenomenon we all looked up to

344
00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:11,920
stanton

345
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:13,600
um no matter

346
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:14,720
what

347
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:17,120
side of the tent you come from you know

348
00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:19,839
stanton was served top of the tent

349
00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:22,160
top tier ufologist

350
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:23,440
and uh

351
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:26,480
he he will always be seen as that

352
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:27,839
um

353
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:30,480
it was sort of it was right at the end

354
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:33,600
of of the conference and the crowd had

355
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:36,959
kind of thinned out around stanton i was

356
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:38,480
ready to go home

357
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:40,399
it looked like he was probably ready to

358
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:42,320
go and catch a plane

359
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,880
but i was one of the last few people

360
00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:46,480
that came up to him

361
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:49,519
i had a hardcover copy of top secret

362
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:50,880
magic

363
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:53,199
and uh i handed it to him he opened up

364
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:54,639
the the book

365
00:14:59,670 --> 00:14:56,320
uh he looked at me he noticed it was a

366
00:15:02,389 --> 00:14:59,680
first edition which it was and is

367
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:02,399
and uh he smiled he had a little twinkle

368
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:04,959
in his eye he said this book caused a

369
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:08,720
little bit of a controversy you know

370
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:11,680
i laughed and i said well yeah it's a

371
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:14,480
good book and it's one of my favorites

372
00:15:19,509 --> 00:15:17,760
of yours and he kind of nodded and he

373
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:19,519
he didn't quite wink

374
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,760
but you know there was that twinkle and

375
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:23,519
he signed the book i'm going to open it

376
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:25,600
up here to the front of this page it

377
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:26,399
says

378
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:30,320
best wishes earl from stanton t friedman

379
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:32,480
top secret magic

380
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:35,440
and it's all magic you know

381
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:36,880
stanton he

382
00:15:41,749 --> 00:15:39,120
he understood the nuts and bolts of this

383
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:41,759
phenomenon but he also understood the

384
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:42,959
magic

385
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:46,480
and god bless you stanton

386
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:48,480
rock and peace wherever you are out

387
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:49,519
there

388
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:52,240
probably chasing down ufos and aliens in

389
00:15:59,189 --> 00:15:55,839
some other dimension at this point

390
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:59,199
remembering stanton terry friedman

391
00:16:01,590 --> 00:15:59,920
stan

392
00:16:04,949 --> 00:16:01,600
[Music]

393
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:04,959
i think of a man who is very kind

394
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:07,120
a true gentleman

395
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:10,320
and so very passionate about the subject

396
00:16:15,749 --> 00:16:12,880
of ufos

397
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:15,759
i think of my friend

398
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:19,040
i first came into contact with stan in

399
00:16:24,069 --> 00:16:22,399
the late 1990s through our mutual friend

400
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:24,079
errol bruce knapp

401
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:27,360
who was the creator of the original ufo

402
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:28,720
updates

403
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:30,959
in toronto

404
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:33,120
i was just starting out as a ufo

405
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:35,279
investigator and

406
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:38,560
i was feeling a little intimidated

407
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:42,000
i had not felt very welcomed by my local

408
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:43,680
investigators

409
00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:47,440
so i branched out on my own

410
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:50,800
and here was this legend

411
00:16:56,550 --> 00:16:54,480
this legendary ufo investigator

412
00:16:59,430 --> 00:16:56,560
who was encouraging me

413
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:59,440
and making me feel like i could make a

414
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:01,759
difference and that

415
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:04,720
my contribution to ufology actually

416
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:06,400
mattered

417
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:08,559
and i

418
00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:12,880
i cannot express adequately in words my

419
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:16,000
gratitude to my friend stan

420
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,270
stan friedman

421
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:25,439
is part of

422
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:29,280
a very rich ufo history

423
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:32,799
and not just in canada where we both

424
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:34,240
made our home

425
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:37,039
but in the united states and around the

426
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:38,640
world

427
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:41,919
he was instrumental in the disclosure

428
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:42,960
movement

429
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:45,360
and getting the canadian government to

430
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:49,039
open up their ufo files

431
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:52,000
but it would take hours for me really to

432
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:54,640
to do his contributions to ufology

433
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:56,160
justice

434
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:59,039
so i think i will just concentrate on

435
00:18:03,510 --> 00:18:00,480
one that

436
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:03,520
to me personally is actually a very big

437
00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:05,520
part

438
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,559
i am a ufo experiencer as well as an

439
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:10,400
investigator

440
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:12,880
and i really do not think that the

441
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,280
general public who have not come into

442
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:17,760
contact with the phenomena

443
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:18,799
have

444
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:21,200
any good idea that the effect that it

445
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:22,880
has on us

446
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:25,919
or the trauma it can create

447
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:28,400
and the difficulty

448
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:31,280
in our ability to openly talk about our

449
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:34,000
experiences

450
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:37,200
stanton friedman made it okay to speak

451
00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:39,280
our truths

452
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:41,679
he was scientifically trained

453
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:44,320
and he called out those people who claim

454
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:47,120
to speak for science who ridicule us who

455
00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:49,039
ridicule experiencers

456
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:56,549
stan was a great supporter

457
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,120
he was a champion

458
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:01,360
and i miss him

459
00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:03,120
hey guys it's cam from expanded

460
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:05,840
perspectives and first off ryan thank

461
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:07,520
you so much

462
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:09,520
for thinking of me and reaching out for

463
00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:12,400
me for one of these stanton stories and

464
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:16,000
i would love to share one i actually

465
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,480
i was very privileged and

466
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:20,160
i got to spend time with him and i

467
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:21,760
wouldn't say a lot of time i mean we're

468
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:25,039
talking 15 20 minutes and that was it i

469
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:27,840
had met him in arkansas when uh my wife

470
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,310
he was such a great guy he was

471
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:39,510
man he was very genuine

472
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:41,520
it was weird uh

473
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:43,679
it was real grandfather-like

474
00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:45,360
i think i've talked about this before

475
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,990
but

476
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:47,200
[Music]

477
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:49,360
it was sitting there with him and i

478
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,440
didn't even ask him about ufos i didn't

479
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:53,039
exchange that with him and he seemed to

480
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,720
be

481
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:56,880
like he seemed to enjoy that part of it

482
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:58,080
of not being

483
00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:59,520
always hammered with the questions i

484
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:01,039
don't know you know i don't like i said

485
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:02,799
15 20 minutes how well can you know a

486
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:03,600
man

487
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:06,000
but i will tell you this he seemed

488
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:08,240
genuinely happy with the way he was

489
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:10,240
leaving things and what i mean by that

490
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:12,000
is i ask him i said do you enjoy

491
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:14,480
yourselves do you still enjoy yourself

492
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:16,080
coming to these and being involved in

493
00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:17,120
this

494
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:18,080
and

495
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:23,200
still i enjoy seeing it i enjoy seeing

496
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:25,039
the people i enjoy being involved and i

497
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:27,039
enjoy seeing everybody

498
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:28,960
it was very like i said it was very

499
00:20:32,549 --> 00:20:31,440
grandfather like and he was funny

500
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:32,559
uh

501
00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:34,080
has a great sense of humor him and i

502
00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:36,240
were cutting up and making jokes and i

503
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:38,240
had a great time with him

504
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:39,760
he was like i think i've said before he

505
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:41,760
reminded me a lot of my grandfather and

506
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:45,440
it was it was very weird it was odd

507
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:47,120
it was it was an odd thing it was just

508
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:48,159
an odd thing

509
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:49,600
to get to share that time with him and

510
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,679
see him you know as growing up and of

511
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:53,760
course buying things and and having his

512
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:55,120
things and then having signed a few

513
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:57,840
things for me so it was a very pleasant

514
00:21:02,710 --> 00:21:00,240
experience that i got to spend with him

515
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:02,720
and it was it was just a genuine i think

516
00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:04,159
i feel like i got to look at a little

517
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:06,400
bit of him when he wasn't

518
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:08,080
you know he's moved past that part he's

519
00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:10,000
moved past the oh it's stanton and

520
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,919
everybody goes crazy and all that stuff

521
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:13,919
in his life in his mind he had moved

522
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:16,400
well past that and he seemed very happy

523
00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:18,559
with the way he was leaving things and

524
00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:20,000
i'll throw let's see i'll throw a

525
00:21:23,669 --> 00:21:22,240
picture up here somewhere on the screen

526
00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:23,679
and you could see where him and i are

527
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:25,120
having a good laugh and he said

528
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:26,880
something awful funny and got me a

529
00:21:31,909 --> 00:21:29,520
little chuckled so anyway thank you so

530
00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:31,919
much didn't mean to ramble it's just i

531
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:33,280
hadn't really given it a lot of thought

532
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:35,600
run until you reached out and it it kind

533
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:37,360
of caught me off guard but it really was

534
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:39,760
a pleasant memory to go back to so

535
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:41,200
yeah i

536
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,799
thank you so much for thinking about me

537
00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:44,400
folks thanks so much for

538
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:45,760
supporting ryan and listening and

539
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:48,240
everything and helping him out and

540
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:50,159
it's it's great that we all get to share

541
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:52,240
in this and it's just stanton was a good

542
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:54,400
one he was a fun guy to be part of so

543
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:56,080
ryan thanks so much for inviting me on

544
00:22:02,789 --> 00:21:59,360
to do all this and y'all take care folks

545
00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:02,799
hey everybody this is eric schlimmer

546
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:05,919
checking in from beautiful colorado

547
00:22:10,549 --> 00:22:08,799
rama therapist and

548
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:10,559
thank you somewhere in the skies for

549
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:13,360
asking me to share my memories of

550
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,520
stanton friedman i didn't know

551
00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:17,280
stanton friedman well

552
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:19,440
i only met him once

553
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:21,679
but here we are 22 years later and i

554
00:22:25,830 --> 00:22:23,679
still remember i'm reading

555
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:25,840
and it's kind of funny i i was in my

556
00:22:30,149 --> 00:22:27,600
kitchen last week

557
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:30,159
and just out of the blue

558
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:32,559
i said wait i think i met

559
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:34,799
stanton friedman

560
00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:36,720
and i did

561
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:37,600
and

562
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:39,679
so i was a college student

563
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:41,280
way up in the northeast corner of new

564
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:44,640
york working on my undergrad and

565
00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:46,559
back then of course this is 2000 there's

566
00:22:49,430 --> 00:22:48,400
no internet and so where you would find

567
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:49,440
the

568
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:54,640
to attend

569
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:57,120
was uh a weekly paper out of burlington

570
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:58,640
vermont

571
00:23:01,909 --> 00:23:00,559
seven days which is still in publication

572
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:01,919
i'm flipping through it and i find an

573
00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:04,159
announcement that stanton friedman is

574
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:06,080
coming to town

575
00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:07,440
and the beauty of the internet i

576
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:09,440
actually found the announcement it's

577
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:11,039
right in front of me here

578
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:13,760
from the march 29 2000

579
00:23:19,510 --> 00:23:16,640
edition of seven days and it says

580
00:23:21,669 --> 00:23:19,520
flying saucers are real

581
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:21,679
nuclear physicist stanton friedman gives

582
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:24,320
an illustrated talk on ufos

583
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:26,640
anti-gravity technologies and

584
00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:29,360
governmental conspiracies

585
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:31,760
angel center ballroom plattsburgh state

586
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:34,159
university 7 pm

587
00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:35,360
5

588
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:38,720
dollars now friedman was the only

589
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:41,760
ufo guy i knew of back then i had read a

590
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:43,200
couple books

591
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,880
on the subject and found it pretty

592
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:46,480
interesting so i said hell it's probably

593
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:48,080
going to be worth

594
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:50,960
five bucks to listen to and maybe even

595
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:51,919
meet

596
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:54,320
stanton friedman the

597
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:56,640
lecture he gave was quite compelling a

598
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:58,480
lot of really good

599
00:24:03,029 --> 00:24:01,360
images of these silver

600
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:03,039
discs shaped

601
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:06,960
craft he was very confident they were

602
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:08,640
propelled by

603
00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:09,760
nuclear

604
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:13,600
energy he made a very very good case

605
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:15,520
for his reasoning of course he's a

606
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:17,200
nuclear physicist totally knew what he

607
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:18,640
was talking about

608
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:20,960
he discussed a couple famous

609
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:22,799
abduction cases

610
00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:25,760
the most famous one being of course

611
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:27,840
barney and betty hill over in the white

612
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:30,240
mountains of new hampshire and he was

613
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:31,840
friends with them interviewed them at

614
00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:33,919
length and so he told their

615
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:36,960
entire story which i had heard of before

616
00:24:40,149 --> 00:24:38,640
but he offered such

617
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:40,159
great additional

618
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:42,240
details to it

619
00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:44,559
i really liked stanton friedman again i

620
00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:47,120
only met him once but just came across

621
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:49,039
as a very genuine guy like that he kind

622
00:24:52,710 --> 00:24:51,039
of looked like a mad scientist he had

623
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:52,720
this little

624
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:54,240
kind of

625
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:57,039
glimmer in his eye i guess you could say

626
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:59,039
that mad scientist look probably made

627
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:00,559
quite a bit of money being a nuclear

628
00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:02,960
physicist but still about his suits at

629
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:04,880
sears like the common man

630
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:06,400
and i like that

631
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:08,720
so after the presentation i

632
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:11,520
got to meet him and i said hey uh

633
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:13,840
ask you a question you know can you talk

634
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:16,400
a little bit more about the

635
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:18,320
the uh performance characteristics of

636
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:20,799
these craft compared to some of our fast

637
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:23,679
stuff for example the sr-71

638
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:26,640
goes about 3 200 miles an hour

639
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:28,799
and hangs out around 60 000 feet and if

640
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:31,520
it's gonna do a 180 degree turn it takes

641
00:25:35,830 --> 00:25:33,360
about half the state of ohio and he gave

642
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:35,840
me this look like how does this

643
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:37,760
26 year old college kid even know this

644
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:40,640
stuff who even knows this

645
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:43,840
and uh so he started sharing the

646
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:44,960
characteristics of flight

647
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:47,440
characteristics of these craft

648
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:49,440
and sure enough they mirrored

649
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:51,120
what we're seeing today particularly the

650
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:53,039
2004 nimitz

651
00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:54,880
incident with commander

652
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:57,520
david fravor he was very thorough very

653
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:59,600
nice guy shook his hand

654
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:01,840
and thanked him for his time

655
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:04,320
and away he went

656
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:06,799
so uh somewhere in the skies podcast

657
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:09,520
thanks for having me share my thoughts

658
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:12,400
take care everybody what can i tell you

659
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:14,640
about stan friedman

660
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:17,760
i first met stan back in the 1970s when

661
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:20,240
he was on one of his tours

662
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:22,000
across canada you know he went to all

663
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:23,600
sorts of universities and colleges

664
00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:25,840
talking about ufos

665
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:28,000
and i happened to be in charge of

666
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:30,400
bringing in some speakers and so i had

667
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,600
brought him in

668
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:33,200
in coordination with some of the student

669
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:34,400
unions

670
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:37,039
and i ended up driving around and then

671
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:40,080
after that time the first time

672
00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:42,240
uh he came back i think maybe even the

673
00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:44,240
next year or the year after

674
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:46,480
and we got to be friends uh he ended up

675
00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:49,200
staying at my home rather than going to

676
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:51,440
a hotel you know to save some money

677
00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:53,200
because stan was like that

678
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:56,080
um and you know over the years i went to

679
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:59,279
his home i got to see first hand what

680
00:27:03,669 --> 00:27:00,320
his

681
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:03,679
uh amassed collection of papers and

682
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:05,600
documents look like the photo you've

683
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:07,600
seen of him sitting amidst all those

684
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,840
documents is the one that i took a

685
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:11,440
number of years ago

686
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:12,799
and

687
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:15,120
we ended up um

688
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:17,520
connecting in person quite a few times

689
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:19,760
he ended up going to

690
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:21,520
minnesota parakon

691
00:27:25,269 --> 00:27:23,440
quite a bit and it was you know only

692
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:25,279
about eight or ten hours away from me so

693
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:27,520
uh drove to meet him there we went for

694
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:28,559
dinner

695
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:31,600
uh in the hotel and in those

696
00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:35,760
uh uh off times uh you know when uh he

697
00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:37,840
wasn't speaking and wasn't selling his

698
00:27:42,789 --> 00:27:40,480
his books at the minnesota paracon

699
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:42,799
um i thought it would be a good idea to

700
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:44,640
just interview him one-on-one and i

701
00:27:47,669 --> 00:27:46,559
produced a series of videos where i

702
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:47,679
asked him a whole bunch of questions

703
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:50,240
about ufology but then i asked him a few

704
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:51,440
other things

705
00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:53,120
and i remember one time out of left

706
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:54,320
field

707
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:57,120
i asked him do you have any regrets

708
00:28:02,549 --> 00:27:59,600
in ufology of of what you've done in

709
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,559
your your your uh you know your work in

710
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:04,799
ufology after all these years and he

711
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:07,440
said he paused and he sat back and he

712
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:10,559
said yeah as a matter of fact

713
00:28:15,669 --> 00:28:12,960
i regret i didn't spend as much time

714
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:15,679
with my family and that's a message that

715
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,080
i think we all have to take into account

716
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:20,559
i mean ufology is a passion people are

717
00:28:24,789 --> 00:28:23,760
are really really focused on this

718
00:28:26,630 --> 00:28:24,799
but

719
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:26,640
i guess the reality is

720
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:27,760
there's

721
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:32,880
it's us as human beings relating to one

722
00:28:36,630 --> 00:28:34,399
another

723
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:36,640
sharing one's life experiences with a

724
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:38,159
partner

725
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:39,840
we are built

726
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:43,039
to have relationships with one another

727
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:45,840
and you know in these days when

728
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:49,200
ufo twitter is nothing but flame wars

729
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:51,120
and there's lots of accusations and

730
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:53,520
there's false information it's time to

731
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:56,480
sit back and just evaluate who we are

732
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:00,320
what we're really doing and to

733
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:02,640
take a good look at ourselves and maybe

734
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:04,000
bring some new

735
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:06,720
perspective to ufology and i'm really

736
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:09,039
glad i had those opportunities to to

737
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:12,320
spend with stan he was a mentor

738
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:13,760
i

739
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:21,840
many people

740
00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:24,399
and to me personally

741
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:27,279
first of all ryan a monsoon of thanks

742
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:29,840
for including me in such an honorable

743
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:32,559
thing that you're doing for what i

744
00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:35,279
consider to be one of the giants in the

745
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:39,440
subject of ufos and alien visitation

746
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:42,640
here on earth i really appreciate uh you

747
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,269
we've only got a few minutes so that i'm

748
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:49,200
gonna make this quick because i could go

749
00:29:52,549 --> 00:29:51,279
on and on with all the stories about

750
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:52,559
stanton but

751
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:56,320
the truth is he is and always will be

752
00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:59,520
the gold standard of ufology to me and

753
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:01,440
uh as long as i'm involved in this

754
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:03,520
subject that's just the way it's going

755
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:06,399
to be he has never

756
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:09,919
in my opinion misrepresented any of us

757
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:12,640
who have a passion in the research the

758
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:15,840
investigation and the study of

759
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:17,600
intelligent life

760
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,320
visiting earth and the

761
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:22,640
parameters and protocols that go into

762
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:24,880
investigating and researching

763
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:28,320
a subject that was very taboo when he

764
00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:30,480
started and especially with someone with

765
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:32,240
his credentials someone with his

766
00:30:37,029 --> 00:30:35,039
background his education his skill sets

767
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:37,039
as an archival researcher stanton

768
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:39,919
friedman was the pinnacle i've often

769
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:42,240
said about him and and well

770
00:30:46,149 --> 00:30:43,200
we could

771
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:46,159
go way down the road with names but

772
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,760
linda molten howe right off the top of

773
00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:49,440
my head and many others

774
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:51,039
when the government goes out of their

775
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:52,000
way

776
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:53,840
to toy with you

777
00:30:59,190 --> 00:30:56,640
you know you're doing something right

778
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:59,200
you know you're going in a direction

779
00:31:02,789 --> 00:31:00,000
that

780
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:02,799
has sort of poked the beehive if you

781
00:31:09,269 --> 00:31:05,440
will and uh and that may not necessarily

782
00:31:12,149 --> 00:31:09,279
be the the the fact that aliens are here

783
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:12,159
or have been here uh or that they in

784
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:14,320
fact even exist

785
00:31:18,549 --> 00:31:16,799
it could be that you stumbled upon

786
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:18,559
something that the government is doing

787
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:20,640
that they don't want you to know

788
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:23,600
um but at the same time

789
00:31:27,269 --> 00:31:25,600
we do know that that did happen with

790
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:27,279
stanton friedman

791
00:31:31,590 --> 00:31:29,360
on many occasions so

792
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:31,600
in my estimation

793
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,760
when that happens you must be doing

794
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:36,080
something in the right way when it comes

795
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:37,120
to

796
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:39,360
investigating these subjects that we all

797
00:31:44,789 --> 00:31:42,080
have a an interest in

798
00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:44,799
with stanton it was a privilege and an

799
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:48,320
honor to come to know who he is and a

800
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:51,760
big feather in my cap came in january

801
00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:55,120
the end of january of 2019 some you know

802
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:57,519
four months before he passed

803
00:32:01,269 --> 00:31:59,760
when i had the chance to interview him

804
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:01,279
on camera

805
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:03,200
maybe perhaps one of the last times he

806
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:05,279
was ever interviewed on camera

807
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:07,360
and it was that interview

808
00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:09,919
that i began to see

809
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:12,559
time catching up with our friend stanton

810
00:32:15,990 --> 00:32:14,559
he was having some trouble keeping his

811
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:16,000
train of thought

812
00:32:21,909 --> 00:32:19,360
staying on track with his answers

813
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:21,919
um and i could see he was laboring it

814
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:23,760
was difficult for him

815
00:32:29,669 --> 00:32:26,960
he obviously knew what was happening and

816
00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:29,679
it that made it worse on him so i did

817
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:31,840
the best i could to comfort him and

818
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:35,600
rearrange things in in the uh order of

819
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:38,000
questions that i had prepared for him

820
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:39,840
and it all honestly

821
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:42,640
it prompted me to go in a direction i

822
00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:45,600
never intended i actually asked him

823
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,600
about his legacy and about what was

824
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:49,760
going to happen with his archives and

825
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,000
did he have plans and that kind of thing

826
00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:55,120
and he actually told me about what was

827
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:58,000
gonna happen with his archives about the

828
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:00,000
university of new brunswick we're gonna

829
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:02,960
they were coming to get them as we spoke

830
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:05,600
that they had retrieved eight file

831
00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:07,919
cabinets and we're coming back to get so

832
00:33:12,389 --> 00:33:09,840
many more file cabinets and so many more

833
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:12,399
boxes to take back to collate and

834
00:33:17,350 --> 00:33:14,480
organize and make them available to the

835
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:17,360
public and he was quite proud of that

836
00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:19,200
after the interview he stopped me and he

837
00:33:22,630 --> 00:33:21,279
said race he said you know why did you

838
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:22,640
ask me about

839
00:33:29,029 --> 00:33:26,080
my files and i was like well stanton

840
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:29,039
your legacy is vitally important to us

841
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:31,519
the work that you have accumulated the

842
00:33:35,350 --> 00:33:33,679
volume of work that you have done is

843
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:35,360
going to go down in history of some of

844
00:33:39,909 --> 00:33:37,200
the best ever done

845
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:39,919
if there was anybody really in the know

846
00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:42,480
and really important in this subject

847
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:44,880
you talked to them and they gave you the

848
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:47,200
time and they trusted in you and you

849
00:33:52,149 --> 00:33:49,440
gave me the time literally getting off

850
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:52,159
of his lawnmower walking in and doing a

851
00:33:55,269 --> 00:33:53,679
one and a half hour interview with

852
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:55,279
myself and royce fitzgerald on

853
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:56,880
eyewitness radio

854
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:58,960
you know the guy was just

855
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:00,240
amazing

856
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:03,840
up until his very last day he dedicated

857
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:07,200
himself to the truth about the reality

858
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:10,879
of ufos and i will never forget the man

859
00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:12,960
the best of the best

860
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:16,320
a true benchmark for all of us

861
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:19,520
in the study of the ufo reality

862
00:34:24,629 --> 00:34:21,919
hi my name is rich hoffman i'm uh one of

863
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:24,639
the board members of scu and uh i'd like

864
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,720
to be able to give a little bit of a

865
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:28,480
shout out to uh

866
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:30,320
stan stanton

867
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:34,240
terry friedman um

868
00:34:39,190 --> 00:34:36,960
and i had a chance to meet in about the

869
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:39,200
time mid 70s i believe he was going

870
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:41,679
around to many of the colleges uh around

871
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:44,240
the country actually delivering lectures

872
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:45,760
and i was a

873
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:46,960
of course

874
00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:49,760
attending college in ohio university and

875
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:51,839
he happened to come by and

876
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:54,079
i had a chance to meet him beforehand

877
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:56,720
and we had a chance to hear his lecture

878
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:58,720
which was by the way excellent

879
00:35:02,390 --> 00:34:59,599
um

880
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:02,400
i'm aware of the fact that he was also

881
00:35:08,069 --> 00:35:06,640
prior to me i got started in 1964.

882
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,079
he had been doing a little bit of work

883
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:10,320
with it and and trying to promote the

884
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:12,560
idea but he really got going

885
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:14,480
in 1970

886
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,400
and at that time i was like you know

887
00:35:20,950 --> 00:35:18,480
largely and i was already into it at

888
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:20,960
that time in dayton ohio area

889
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:22,000
um

890
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:23,760
stanton and i never had a chance to meet

891
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,480
in the dayton ohio area but we did had i

892
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:28,480
i recall uh

893
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:31,200
going to a conference in columbus ohio

894
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:33,119
and this this might have been in the mid

895
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,240
70s

896
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:36,960
um and we had a chance to i had a chance

897
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:39,119
to have a meal with him

898
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:41,200
at a restaurant prior to hearing jenny

899
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:43,040
zeidman's uh

900
00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:45,920
uh recounting of the larry coin case in

901
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,800
ohio this was a helicopter a pilot who

902
00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:50,720
actually saw an object that

903
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,760
actually

904
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:54,000
pulled the uh the helicopter up from a

905
00:35:57,910 --> 00:35:56,000
descent mode and uh it was a pretty

906
00:35:59,670 --> 00:35:57,920
exciting case but

907
00:36:01,430 --> 00:35:59,680
anyway stanton and i had a chance to

908
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:01,440
actually uh really sit down and talk to

909
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:03,839
each other for the very first time

910
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:05,760
he we had a lot of common

911
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:07,680
commonalities he actually uh was

912
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:09,359
actually at one point working i believe

913
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:10,800
at westinghouse

914
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:12,480
and uh also

915
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:15,599
was somehow connected to the cincinnati

916
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:17,680
and of course me being in dayton i had a

917
00:36:21,430 --> 00:36:19,920
chance you know i was familiar with the

918
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,440
the organization that we had a long

919
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:23,280
conversation

920
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:26,400
very fascinating man very intelligent uh

921
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:29,040
very willing to confront and debate

922
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:31,280
anybody he did an amazing amount of

923
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:33,920
debating against a variety of skeptics

924
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:36,160
including michael shermer and i think

925
00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:38,240
phil class was a one of those the ones

926
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:40,160
that he tend to go after and by the way

927
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:42,160
i will point out that

928
00:36:47,349 --> 00:36:44,000
stanton won a thousand dollars off of

929
00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:47,359
phil class for a bet that they made

930
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:49,760
talking about the majestic 12 documents

931
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:51,440
but anyway

932
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:53,760
stanton was quite a character

933
00:36:58,150 --> 00:36:55,920
i always enjoy the fact that he was

934
00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:58,160
willing to mention the word and call it

935
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:01,359
flying saucers as opposed to ufos

936
00:37:05,190 --> 00:37:03,040
uh i thought that that brought an

937
00:37:07,349 --> 00:37:05,200
element of understanding for a lot of

938
00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:07,359
people and they he was just not afraid

939
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:09,440
to say that he would he would do that

940
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:10,880
all the time

941
00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:11,760
uh

942
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:14,720
i also had a chance in about 20 i think

943
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:18,800
it's 26 17 26 no it's 2016.

944
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:20,240
i i was

945
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:23,119
giving a presentation uh

946
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:26,320
on the uh the aguadilla case in

947
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:29,040
orlando florida at the mufon conference

948
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:30,800
and i typically when i went to move on

949
00:37:35,109 --> 00:37:32,880
conferences i also went over and talked

950
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:35,119
with uh stanton about a lot of different

951
00:37:39,589 --> 00:37:37,359
things got his books of course

952
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:39,599
and had a chance to have him sign him

953
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:42,640
and so i i hold those very dear uh to me

954
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:44,000
right now

955
00:37:48,710 --> 00:37:46,400
but i will recall that we had a chance

956
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:48,720
to chat about the aguadilla case in

957
00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:50,160
addition to that a whole lot of other

958
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:51,280
things

959
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:54,320
and i i was also a moderator of a panel

960
00:37:58,950 --> 00:37:56,320
which him and kathy martin and a whole

961
00:38:00,790 --> 00:37:58,960
bunch of other people tony angiolia

962
00:38:01,589 --> 00:38:00,800
and ben moss and a number of others were

963
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:01,599
on

964
00:38:06,870 --> 00:38:04,480
uh it was very very uh very exciting to

965
00:38:09,349 --> 00:38:06,880
hear his views being uh

966
00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:09,359
being expressed and me being able to

967
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:11,040
finally ask him a lot of them as a

968
00:38:14,950 --> 00:38:13,359
moderator at that session and always

969
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:14,960
remember that

970
00:38:20,870 --> 00:38:19,359
very sad to see the the man go he always

971
00:38:24,230 --> 00:38:20,880
was very very

972
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:24,240
uh upbeat about the topic uh very

973
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:26,400
willing to discuss and debate anybody as

974
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:27,440
i said

975
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:29,359
and i just really miss him

976
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:32,480
he's just a great guy and i want to say

977
00:38:36,470 --> 00:38:34,240
ryan thanks for the opportunity to be

978
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:36,480
able to express my uh

979
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:37,760
deepest

980
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:41,040
memories of of the man and and a tribute

981
00:38:43,829 --> 00:38:42,079
to him

982
00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:43,839
thank you

983
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:46,560
hi i'm jason and i'm louis and we're the

984
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:49,440
host of uap studies podcast and what can

985
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:51,680
you say about stanton friedman

986
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:53,520
well from my own personal opinion this

987
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:55,200
man was a

988
00:39:00,390 --> 00:38:57,920
legend and somebody to look up to

989
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:00,400
a nuclear physicist so skeptics always

990
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:02,400
want hard evidence they want it to come

991
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:04,400
from science minds and this was a

992
00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:07,920
science mind that was unapologetically

993
00:39:13,829 --> 00:39:10,240
a ufologist in fact he used to say many

994
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:13,839
times i am not an apologist ufologist

995
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:15,760
he was the original civilian

996
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:18,320
investigator of the roswell incident he

997
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:19,839
was the first non-government person

998
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:22,720
allowed uh to investigate that and to to

999
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:24,400
have access to project blue book and

1000
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:26,960
reports and all the rest uh this was he

1001
00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:29,680
was a classmate of carl sagan and even

1002
00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:32,079
though he criticized him and opposed him

1003
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:34,240
he's still coming from that era you know

1004
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:36,640
he's appeared on over 36 movies and tv

1005
00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:39,599
series uh he's written his books um you

1006
00:39:43,750 --> 00:39:41,440
know he's helped other

1007
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:43,760
hidden reports within big reports come

1008
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:45,680
to light for example project blue book

1009
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:48,160
had a special report number 14 i think

1010
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:50,480
it was called and essentially it was

1011
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:54,560
another 3 200 sightings and the unknown

1012
00:39:58,390 --> 00:39:56,880
percentage was 21

1013
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:58,400
so when you hear reports of things that

1014
00:40:02,230 --> 00:40:00,160
are like one percent couldn't be

1015
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:02,240
explained or you know one out of a

1016
00:40:06,950 --> 00:40:04,000
thousand or whatever that is

1017
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:06,960
this was a buried report that had much

1018
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:09,359
stronger numbers and he brought that to

1019
00:40:15,030 --> 00:40:12,720
light and uh for myself i regret never

1020
00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:15,040
having a chance to meet the man um i

1021
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:16,640
think very highly of him i would have

1022
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:18,000
loved to have him on the show what about

1023
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:19,040
you jay

1024
00:40:23,829 --> 00:40:20,880
well yeah i would agree with you he was

1025
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:23,839
a pioneer when he came down to ufology

1026
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:26,000
and somebody of his reputation i mean

1027
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:27,599
you couldn't beat that

1028
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:29,599
and the fact that he put himself out

1029
00:40:33,349 --> 00:40:31,440
there to say hey something's going on

1030
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:33,359
here look at the evidence that we're

1031
00:40:38,309 --> 00:40:36,319
able to gather he had his critics

1032
00:40:40,470 --> 00:40:38,319
and he was harsh on his critics as as

1033
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:40,480
probably as equally as hard as they were

1034
00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:43,119
harsh on him but he did have a point he

1035
00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:45,119
put himself out there he was the one who

1036
00:40:48,309 --> 00:40:46,480
had the boots on the ground

1037
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:48,319
investigating the stuff coming out with

1038
00:40:51,510 --> 00:40:49,359
reports

1039
00:40:53,670 --> 00:40:51,520
while his critics would only just read

1040
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:53,680
his material after the fact and then say

1041
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:55,200
something to the effect that they didn't

1042
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,800
agree with what he said

1043
00:41:01,349 --> 00:40:58,480
yeah he was definitely critical of

1044
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:01,359
debunkers and most of his uh critics

1045
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:02,720
were people that said well there's no

1046
00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:04,800
conclusive evidence in fact he got in a

1047
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:06,400
debate with philip class and phillip

1048
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:08,400
class said i'll pay stanton freedman a

1049
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:11,200
hundred dollars for any concrete proof

1050
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:13,119
and stanton gave him 10 different points

1051
00:41:17,589 --> 00:41:15,599
of actual documented proof and phillip

1052
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:17,599
class gave him a thousand bucks so

1053
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:19,280
even his debunkers respected him you

1054
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:21,760
know he's uh he's a man without enemies

1055
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:24,400
really and yeah somebody everybody knows

1056
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:26,480
and loves and respects

1057
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:29,119
never had his own real opinion of things

1058
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:30,960
it was just more of a humbling yeah

1059
00:41:35,109 --> 00:41:32,640
there's your status of stanton friedman

1060
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:35,119
you know yeah everybody has uh a stanton

1061
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:36,720
friedman you know

1062
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:40,160
uh story or or you know documentary that

1063
00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:42,319
if he wasn't part of a ufo documentary

1064
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:44,960
back in the day it wasn't worth watching

1065
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:47,119
i agree yeah and i looked it up before

1066
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:49,440
doing this little clip and yeah 36

1067
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:50,960
different movies and tv series he's

1068
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:52,720
appeared on oh really you know he was a

1069
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:54,400
nuclear physicist he was a professor at

1070
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:56,240
the university of chicago he's got a

1071
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:58,319
master's degree you know when people

1072
00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:00,480
talk about you know only

1073
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:03,040
sort of open-minded or kind of you know

1074
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:05,040
spatial thinkers are into the topic of

1075
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:06,960
ufology you don't get much more

1076
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:09,839
scientific than a nuclear physicist

1077
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:11,760
i mean he's the real deal

1078
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:13,520
and still humble enough to say hey we

1079
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:15,359
don't know and in fact the more you

1080
00:42:19,910 --> 00:42:17,760
looked at it the more you know

1081
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:19,920
unknown became unprobable and it was

1082
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:22,640
more like unidentified and you know he

1083
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:25,040
was big on kind of separating the whole

1084
00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:27,520
are they real question versus how do

1085
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:29,119
they operate question

1086
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:31,680
and are they real for him was a given so

1087
00:42:36,630 --> 00:42:34,079
he wanted to focus more on you know the

1088
00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:36,640
size the surface the shape the texture

1089
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:39,200
like did they exist let's get into the

1090
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:40,800
you know what we call nuts and bolts

1091
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,560
ufology today

1092
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,240
it wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the

1093
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:46,079
work of him you know to step out and be

1094
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:48,240
crazy enough to say hey call me what you

1095
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:50,560
like but this is actually there there's

1096
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:53,200
science behind it everything that came

1097
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:54,880
out that said it was inconclusive was

1098
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:56,560
nonsense you know he found buried

1099
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:59,280
documents modified documents he's been

1100
00:43:03,990 --> 00:43:01,200
through this you know george knapp is a

1101
00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:04,000
legend but i mean stanton friedman came

1102
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:06,480
before george knapp you know he's the in

1103
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:08,240
my opinion one of the original

1104
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:10,079
torchbearers of this whole thing if not

1105
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:11,440
the pioneer

1106
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:13,760
i only found out that stanton was

1107
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:15,119
canadian

1108
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:17,119
when he passed away i had no idea that

1109
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:19,200
he was canadian but yeah he i think he

1110
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:20,640
lived most of his life in the states he

1111
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:22,640
got married and then when his first wife

1112
00:43:25,430 --> 00:43:24,240
passed away he moved back to saint john

1113
00:43:28,309 --> 00:43:25,440
new brunswick

1114
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:28,319
and uh coincidentally he i mean i'm from

1115
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:29,760
toronto and so when i read that he

1116
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:32,079
passed away in toronto i looked it up

1117
00:43:36,069 --> 00:43:33,599
and he wasn't living there he had a

1118
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:36,079
heart attack at the toronto airport so

1119
00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:36,880
um

1120
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:38,319
yeah i guess

1121
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:39,680
when it's your time it's your time

1122
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:41,280
regardless if you're stanton freeman or

1123
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:43,839
not well thanks ryan for having us on uh

1124
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:46,079
the podcast we really appreciate it for

1125
00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:47,520
all your listeners out there if you get

1126
00:43:52,630 --> 00:43:50,800
a chance check out uap studies podcast

1127
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:52,640
hey this is alan b smith from paranormal

1128
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,960
now ryan thank you so much for allowing

1129
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:56,400
me to share my thoughts on stanton

1130
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:57,520
friedman

1131
00:44:01,349 --> 00:44:00,160
um on paranormal now the first interview

1132
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:01,359
i did

1133
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:03,359
was with stanton friedman and that's

1134
00:44:07,109 --> 00:44:04,880
because

1135
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:07,119
he cared to get his message out which

1136
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:10,160
was his research and the fact that he

1137
00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:12,400
believed that extraterrestrials are

1138
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:15,280
visiting earth and he had the facts to

1139
00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:17,200
support it

1140
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:19,760
what made him amazing was his generosity

1141
00:44:25,750 --> 00:44:23,280
of spirit i was just a fledgling podcast

1142
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:25,760
and he was willing to come on

1143
00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:28,079
and just talk people could stop him in

1144
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:30,319
the the street and he'd stop and give

1145
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:31,680
them the time and talk about this

1146
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:34,560
subject on camera off camera whatever

1147
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:37,119
that was the kind of person that he was

1148
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:38,240
um

1149
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:41,280
it often wasn't always seen because the

1150
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:43,119
subjects that came up were

1151
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:46,319
ufology but he really was a really kind

1152
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:48,480
uh person and very gracious

1153
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:51,440
but what i want to import in part the

1154
00:44:54,510 --> 00:44:53,520
most i think is

1155
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,520
how

1156
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:56,160
profoundly

1157
00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:57,920
impactful he was

1158
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:59,280
his voice

1159
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:00,480
he

1160
00:45:06,069 --> 00:45:05,040
cadence his passion

1161
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:06,079
it

1162
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:14,960
late night radio uh coast to coast a.m

1163
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:17,520
when i heard him um on there many years

1164
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:21,280
ago um and as a kid in the late 80s and

1165
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:22,640
the 90s

1166
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:24,400
the roswell case

1167
00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:28,160
um blew ufology up and it was like a

1168
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:30,400
wave that just went across the country

1169
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:33,680
and the entire world

1170
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:35,040
and a lot of that

1171
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:37,359
i give credit to stanton friedman

1172
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:39,760
he spoke in a way that resonated with

1173
00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:40,960
people

1174
00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:42,880
he can talk about

1175
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:44,800
science and physics and

1176
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:48,319
and you know documents and dates and

1177
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:51,040
names that for some might have otherwise

1178
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:53,200
been boring and somehow

1179
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:56,640
he made it enthralling and and not with

1180
00:46:01,910 --> 00:45:58,160
hyperbole

1181
00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:01,920
he was just such an eloquent speaker and

1182
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:04,720
i have so much respect for the passion

1183
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:07,200
that he was able to imbue on younger

1184
00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:10,720
minds um from when i was growing up to

1185
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:12,839
recent years and i hope i hope

1186
00:46:17,109 --> 00:46:15,839
perpetually and indefinitely because

1187
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:17,119
you know you can go out and you can

1188
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:18,960
listen to his interviews and his

1189
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:20,400
recordings and

1190
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:24,240
tv shows and documentaries with him um

1191
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:26,640
and that's for generations to come and i

1192
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,520
think that you know

1193
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:32,240
there's a resource of knowledge

1194
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:35,680
that is forever valuable um whether we

1195
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:37,760
get full disclosure or not um i

1196
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:39,920
encourage everyone to go out and just

1197
00:46:45,349 --> 00:46:42,240
listen to stan again you know he had he

1198
00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:45,359
had a way of communicating um

1199
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:46,400
that

1200
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:48,160
made it okay

1201
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:50,160
to talk about

1202
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:52,000
the idea that extraterrestrials are

1203
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:53,760
visiting on earth that roswell crash was

1204
00:46:58,470 --> 00:46:56,400
real there there was a ufo that was

1205
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:58,480
downed in corona new mexico

1206
00:47:01,109 --> 00:47:00,319
and and you can

1207
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:01,119
take

1208
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:03,119
his phrasing and

1209
00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:04,480
bring that into a conversation with

1210
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:06,720
friends and family without sounding

1211
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:08,000
um

1212
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:09,599
you know hyperbolic

1213
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:10,960
so

1214
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:13,200
again i i can't express how much i

1215
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:14,400
appreciate

1216
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:16,319
the work he did

1217
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:17,760
sociologically

1218
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:18,720
for

1219
00:47:23,910 --> 00:47:22,319
subject of ufology

1220
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,920
so thanks again ryan uh peace and love

1221
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:25,839
to everybody out there and

1222
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:27,839
live in the mystery hi i'm ross

1223
00:47:32,549 --> 00:47:30,640
coulthard author of in plain sight i

1224
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:32,559
never had the pleasure of meeting stan

1225
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:35,440
friedman but i deeply admire how as a

1226
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:38,400
scientist he recognized very early on

1227
00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:42,079
that uaps are a real phenomenon not

1228
00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:44,079
something that can be readily dismissed

1229
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:46,559
with a prosaic explanation

1230
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:49,200
i also enjoy how he monstered that

1231
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:52,160
clique of blinkered debunkers who seem

1232
00:47:58,390 --> 00:47:55,280
determined to reject any analysis of the

1233
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:58,400
available evidence with his definitive

1234
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:00,240
cranky rebuttal

1235
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:03,200
in particular i share stan's skepticism

1236
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:05,280
about seti the search for

1237
00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:07,520
extraterrestrial intelligence

1238
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:10,640
if there is a highly advanced non-human

1239
00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:12,880
intelligence out there elsewhere in the

1240
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:14,000
universe

1241
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:16,800
why on earth would they use radio waves

1242
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:18,319
to communicate

1243
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:20,640
i'm sure stands on a cloud somewhere

1244
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:23,520
cursing congress for being so slow to

1245
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:27,280
open up about what it now knows

1246
00:48:33,910 --> 00:48:29,359
stanton friedman

1247
00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:33,920
my fondest memory of stanton is my first

1248
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:34,960
one

1249
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:36,640
uh growing up

1250
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:39,599
stanton was the face of ufology it's tv

1251
00:48:42,470 --> 00:48:41,680
his documentaries his books i read them

1252
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:42,480
all

1253
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:44,800
and when i started fade to black i

1254
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:47,119
wanted stanton on the show like

1255
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:49,599
everybody does right so

1256
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:52,319
i tried to get his email i go to his

1257
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:53,680
website

1258
00:48:57,430 --> 00:48:54,400
and

1259
00:48:59,910 --> 00:48:57,440
his phone number is there

1260
00:49:03,270 --> 00:48:59,920
and i stared at it for a minute do i do

1261
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,280
i dial this number and the crazy part

1262
00:49:08,230 --> 00:49:05,599
about this is that i thought i was the

1263
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:08,240
only one going through this

1264
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:09,920
and i have since heard this story

1265
00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:12,559
repeated many times with others

1266
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:15,200
but it's this i i dialed the number he

1267
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:16,720
picked up

1268
00:49:22,150 --> 00:49:19,680
and uh that was stan friedman

1269
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:22,160
and i said uh stan this is jimmy church

1270
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:23,839
i give him the pitch

1271
00:49:28,309 --> 00:49:26,240
started a new show and would love to

1272
00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:28,319
have you on

1273
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:29,680
when

1274
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:33,119
this week cool send me the info

1275
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:34,880
i'll be there

1276
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:36,079
and

1277
00:49:40,230 --> 00:49:38,880
it was not only did he make me feel

1278
00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:40,240
comfortable

1279
00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:41,040
but

1280
00:49:45,510 --> 00:49:43,520
that original interview

1281
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:45,520
uh for me

1282
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:48,079
was divine

1283
00:49:54,390 --> 00:49:52,160
and speaking to the stanton friedman

1284
00:49:57,430 --> 00:49:54,400
and over the years he became a great

1285
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:57,440
friend and the conversations that we had

1286
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:00,720
both public and private were were just

1287
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:03,520
amazing and and i'll i'll cherish them

1288
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:04,559
forever

1289
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:06,640
there was one other moment i want to

1290
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:08,079
share with you

1291
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:11,119
uh stan was just amazing

1292
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:13,200
we were on stage we got a couple of

1293
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:15,200
thousand people in front of us

1294
00:50:21,190 --> 00:50:19,200
and i'm i'm hosting uh this panel

1295
00:50:24,829 --> 00:50:21,200
stanton is on the panel

1296
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:24,839
and the subject comes up about bob

1297
00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:27,839
lazar and i said whatever i said and

1298
00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:29,839
stanton

1299
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:31,680
schooled me

1300
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:35,680
with everybody there and i was ruffled

1301
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:39,520
and it was an honor to have that happen

1302
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:42,240
later after the panel ended we were

1303
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,160
backstage and

1304
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:46,800
stanton came up to me and slapped me on

1305
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:48,559
on the shoulder and said

1306
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:50,559
you did good kid

1307
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:52,000
and

1308
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:55,760
stan was the best thank you ryan uh for

1309
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:58,559
doing this little celebration of stanton

1310
00:51:02,309 --> 00:51:00,160
friedman this is jimmy churchill fade to

1311
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:02,319
black everybody behave out there

1312
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:05,760
and enjoy the rest of the show

1313
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:07,839
stan thank you so much for joining me

1314
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:10,079
today on somewhere in the skies well i

1315
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:12,079
enjoy doing interviews and i certainly

1316
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:14,160
enjoy talking about what's going on in

1317
00:51:18,309 --> 00:51:16,480
the skies

1318
00:51:20,549 --> 00:51:18,319
yes i would say so and we will

1319
00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:20,559
definitely get into that i mean stan so

1320
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:23,200
the first book i ever read on the ufo

1321
00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:25,599
topic was crash a corona written by both

1322
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:29,440
you and don berliner and i was terrified

1323
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:31,680
terrified as a 13 year old to think that

1324
00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:34,160
you know ufos are flying around in space

1325
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:36,640
but now they're also crashing on our

1326
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:39,599
planet and that fear turned to obsession

1327
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:41,760
i've been researching ever since so i

1328
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:43,920
would love to hear you know for our

1329
00:51:48,790 --> 00:51:46,160
audience that may not know this story

1330
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,800
your origin story as it were of how you

1331
00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:50,880
got involved in all this to begin with

1332
00:51:55,510 --> 00:51:53,200
well it was one of a number of topics i

1333
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:55,520
was interested in i was a as a kid i

1334
00:51:59,670 --> 00:51:57,359
read science fiction

1335
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:59,680
you know when i was 10 years old in the

1336
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:01,280
pulp magazines i'm old enough to

1337
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:03,119
remember the pulps and all that sort of

1338
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:05,680
stuff and then i got into more serious

1339
00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:08,000
science and i got a couple of degrees

1340
00:52:14,710 --> 00:52:08,800
and

1341
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:14,720
i

1342
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:48,480
and uh

1343
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:52,400
i got the book figured it was two 299 or

1344
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:56,000
something marked down to a dollar and

1345
00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:56,960
because

1346
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:59,200
uh it saved me the shipping costs on

1347
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:01,040
that big order of books it really wasn't

1348
00:53:05,589 --> 00:53:03,359
costing me anything so what the heck

1349
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,599
we could afford if it's nonsense okay so

1350
00:53:10,069 --> 00:53:07,920
i read the book and it intrigued me it

1351
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:10,079
didn't convince me but

1352
00:53:16,230 --> 00:53:12,720
i read 10 more books and then in the

1353
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:16,240
early uh 1960s at the university of

1354
00:53:20,950 --> 00:53:19,280
california berkeley library i lived at

1355
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:20,960
that time

1356
00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:23,200
i had moved from general electric to

1357
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:25,760
aero general nucleonics which is east of

1358
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:27,119
san francisco

1359
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:29,359
so i'd go over to berkeley and i

1360
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:31,440
read 10 more books

1361
00:53:35,829 --> 00:53:33,200
and then i made the had the great

1362
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:35,839
epiphany if you will i found a copy of

1363
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:38,319
something project blue book special

1364
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,200
report number 14.

1365
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:43,680
and a surprising thing was it hadn't

1366
00:53:47,589 --> 00:53:45,760
been mentioned in any of the ten books

1367
00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:47,599
that i had read

1368
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:50,640
so that seems happy of something project

1369
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:54,720
blue book special report number fourteen

1370
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,280
and the surprising thing was it hadn't

1371
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:59,280
been mentioned in any of the 10 books

1372
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:01,200
that i had read

1373
00:54:05,190 --> 00:54:03,280
so that seems strange where the heck did

1374
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:05,200
this come from you know it was an

1375
00:54:10,150 --> 00:54:08,319
official government report and the work

1376
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:10,160
i found out later was done by battelle

1377
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:12,800
memorial institute in columbus ohio and

1378
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:15,520
as it turns out i have dealings with

1379
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:16,800
mattel

1380
00:54:21,670 --> 00:54:19,200
i did a study how do you like this title

1381
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:21,680
for a study analysis and evaluation of

1382
00:54:26,549 --> 00:54:24,079
fast and intermediate reactors for space

1383
00:54:29,589 --> 00:54:26,559
vehicle application the one important

1384
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:29,599
word was left out soviet

1385
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:32,160
i was looking at the literature that i

1386
00:54:36,789 --> 00:54:34,640
could get on russian

1387
00:54:38,470 --> 00:54:36,799
publications in the scientific areas

1388
00:54:41,109 --> 00:54:38,480
that would be concerned with developing

1389
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:41,119
nuclear power systems for space

1390
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:42,160
and

1391
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:44,240
i would go back to the people who had

1392
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:45,440
the best collection of russian

1393
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:49,119
literature were patel memorial institute

1394
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:50,559
and turns out they were the people who

1395
00:54:54,789 --> 00:54:52,720
did blue book special report 14 even

1396
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:54,799
though the name isn't on it interesting

1397
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:00,069
so

1398
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:02,960
that i was intrigued with patel i would

1399
00:55:07,349 --> 00:55:05,359
go back there once a month or so to talk

1400
00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:07,359
to people patel and then

1401
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:09,680
also air force people that write

1402
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:12,000
paterson air force base so

1403
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:13,200
i i would

1404
00:55:15,910 --> 00:55:14,880
go back there i was very impressed with

1405
00:55:18,710 --> 00:55:15,920
patel

1406
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:18,720
but i also would be looking at their ufo

1407
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:22,319
stuff while i was coming into it right

1408
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:25,040
and that that got me really tooling

1409
00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:28,079
along because bloombox special report 14

1410
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:29,920
uh the biggest study ever done for the

1411
00:55:35,430 --> 00:55:32,160
united states air force mine too they

1412
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:35,440
looked at 3201 sightings the report has

1413
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:37,839
hundreds of charts tables graphs maps i

1414
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:41,359
was in data heaven i'm a data fiend

1415
00:55:46,470 --> 00:55:44,160
and uh what i found

1416
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:46,480
was i also discovered how should i put

1417
00:55:50,150 --> 00:55:49,040
this official line that's a nice way to

1418
00:55:52,150 --> 00:55:50,160
say that

1419
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:52,160
the press release which they the guy who

1420
00:55:56,230 --> 00:55:54,000
put this privately published version

1421
00:55:58,789 --> 00:55:56,240
together included

1422
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:58,799
uh dated 1955.

1423
00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:00,240
in the press release it says on the

1424
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:03,599
basis of this study we believe that no

1425
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:05,599
objects such as those properly described

1426
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:07,599
as flying saucers have overflown the

1427
00:56:11,829 --> 00:56:09,440
united states this is the secretary of

1428
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:11,839
the air force my last name was corals we

1429
00:56:14,230 --> 00:56:12,640
believe

1430
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:14,240
no object such as properly described

1431
00:56:17,829 --> 00:56:15,440
responding

1432
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:17,839
in the united states even the unknown

1433
00:56:21,190 --> 00:56:20,000
three percent

1434
00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:21,200
could have been identified as

1435
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:23,920
conventional phenomena or illusions if

1436
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:25,760
more complete observational data had

1437
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:27,200
been available

1438
00:56:30,789 --> 00:56:28,880
well if you only saw the press release

1439
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:30,799
that sounds pretty damn good

1440
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:32,400
but i had to report

1441
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:34,240
and i'm a data hound

1442
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:36,000
where'd they get this unknown three

1443
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:38,960
percent the unknowns were 21 and a half

1444
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:40,640
percent

1445
00:56:46,150 --> 00:56:44,400
and 21.5 is not three rounded off they

1446
00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:46,160
also further uh

1447
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:47,920
saying that they were full of bologna

1448
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:50,400
was they did a cross-comparison between

1449
00:56:54,630 --> 00:56:52,400
the unknowns the only ones were

1450
00:56:56,710 --> 00:56:54,640
interested in and the knowns remember

1451
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:56,720
the question isn't our all ufo's alien

1452
00:57:00,710 --> 00:56:58,640
spacecraft the question is there any you

1453
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:00,720
know are all isotope special of course

1454
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:04,400
not but fortunately for us nuclear guys

1455
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:06,400
they also did a quality evaluation to

1456
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:08,240
better the quality of the sightings the

1457
00:57:10,829 --> 00:57:10,000
more likely

1458
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:10,839
to be

1459
00:57:16,390 --> 00:57:13,119
unexplainable and a cross-comparison

1460
00:57:18,549 --> 00:57:16,400
between unknowns and knowns show that

1461
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:18,559
the probability that the unknowns were

1462
00:57:23,030 --> 00:57:20,880
mis just misnomed was less than one

1463
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:23,040
percent the groups did not have the same

1464
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:25,520
characteristics at all so i was shocked

1465
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:28,319
by this and the duration of observation

1466
00:57:32,309 --> 00:57:30,240
was longer for the unknowns and the

1467
00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:32,319
knowns and all kinds of other data that

1468
00:57:38,069 --> 00:57:35,520
says these darn things are real and so

1469
00:57:39,990 --> 00:57:38,079
i don't like being lied to i worked

1470
00:57:41,910 --> 00:57:40,000
under security at that time and i you

1471
00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:41,920
know sometimes you have to

1472
00:57:46,150 --> 00:57:44,400
actually say tiptoe around

1473
00:57:49,190 --> 00:57:46,160
the information but

1474
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:49,200
not online that's another story

1475
00:57:54,150 --> 00:57:52,079
so i got determined i want to find out

1476
00:57:55,990 --> 00:57:54,160
why we're being lied to i don't like

1477
00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:56,000
being lied to

1478
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:56,720
and

1479
00:58:02,069 --> 00:57:59,280
as a scientist especially

1480
00:58:03,829 --> 00:58:02,079
and so uh i started digging into the

1481
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:03,839
literature and

1482
00:58:08,710 --> 00:58:06,400
digging out more information

1483
00:58:10,309 --> 00:58:08,720
and the quest hasn't ended to tell you

1484
00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:10,319
the truth but i joined the first thing i

1485
00:58:15,109 --> 00:58:12,880
did was join apro and nycap the two big

1486
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:15,119
organizations which are both defunct now

1487
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:16,799
i joined them to get their monthly

1488
00:58:20,150 --> 00:58:18,720
newsletters or bi-monthly whatever it

1489
00:58:21,270 --> 00:58:20,160
was like

1490
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:21,280
and uh

1491
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:23,040
trying to keep up there was an active

1492
00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:24,960
group in pittsburgh when i finally moved

1493
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:27,040
there i was one of these

1494
00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:27,920
you know

1495
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:29,920
life doesn't take the path you expected

1496
00:58:32,950 --> 00:58:30,720
to

1497
00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:32,960
my dad worked for the same company for

1498
00:58:37,589 --> 00:58:35,040
37 years

1499
00:58:40,069 --> 00:58:37,599
so okay my first job out of college is

1500
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:40,079
general electric well they're a big

1501
00:58:44,390 --> 00:58:42,319
company i could work for them i looked

1502
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:44,400
it up but i could retire because i

1503
00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:46,880
started young when i was 57

1504
00:58:51,270 --> 00:58:48,799
that's great and they got several

1505
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:51,280
nuclear divisions no question at all

1506
00:58:57,589 --> 00:58:55,040
it's a lifetime career wow

1507
00:58:59,750 --> 00:58:57,599
three years later the program was going

1508
00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:59,760
down the tubes i saw a man writing on

1509
00:59:03,270 --> 00:59:01,440
the wall and got out

1510
00:59:05,030 --> 00:59:03,280
joined another company

1511
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:05,040
for three years and then realized they

1512
00:59:13,589 --> 00:59:12,069
totally unexpected that you understand

1513
00:59:15,589 --> 00:59:13,599
right because i was having to move my

1514
00:59:17,349 --> 00:59:15,599
family it's not just walking down the

1515
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:17,359
street okay i'll drive two miles this

1516
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:20,160
way instead of five miles that way but

1517
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:23,040
uh moving across the country get to see

1518
00:59:29,670 --> 00:59:26,400
the country i guess uh and so i spent 14

1519
00:59:31,349 --> 00:59:29,680
years in industry and on the ufo scene

1520
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:31,359
you know i was reading the books and

1521
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:34,240
stuff and we set up a group in

1522
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:35,280
pittsburgh

1523
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:38,480
um but a nightcap subcommittee is what

1524
00:59:42,309 --> 00:59:40,559
they had at that time

1525
00:59:44,150 --> 00:59:42,319
then we set up on our own because we

1526
00:59:46,230 --> 00:59:44,160
didn't like them telling us what we

1527
00:59:47,829 --> 00:59:46,240
should be doing from the nightcap was

1528
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:47,839
headquartered in washington that was

1529
00:59:52,069 --> 00:59:50,240
major keyhole and we had a bunch of uh

1530
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:52,079
some professional people mostly from

1531
00:59:56,470 --> 00:59:54,079
westinghouse where i work

1532
00:59:58,630 --> 00:59:56,480
so we set up the group

1533
01:00:00,630 --> 00:59:58,640
and i didn't

1534
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:00,640
i called i called frank edwards i had

1535
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:03,760
gotten to know him when he was in the uh

1536
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:05,440
he wrote a book flying saucers serious

1537
01:00:08,789 --> 01:00:07,040
business he was a journalist from

1538
01:00:11,030 --> 01:00:08,799
indianapolis

1539
01:00:12,309 --> 01:00:11,040
and on one of my stints i worked for

1540
01:00:14,870 --> 01:00:12,319
general motors

1541
01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:14,880
allison division which is working on

1542
01:00:20,230 --> 01:00:17,200
military compact reactors nobody thinks

1543
01:00:21,190 --> 01:00:20,240
of gm and nuclear reactors but they were

1544
01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:21,200
and

1545
01:00:29,670 --> 01:00:27,359
westinghouse in pittsburgh i told frank

1546
01:00:31,829 --> 01:00:29,680
i i want to go public you know everybody

1547
01:00:33,829 --> 01:00:31,839
give me some names of the media people

1548
01:00:35,589 --> 01:00:33,839
because our group was

1549
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:35,599
good things were happening i felt very

1550
01:00:39,349 --> 01:00:37,200
good about the group

1551
01:00:42,710 --> 01:00:39,359
so he gave me a bunch of names

1552
01:00:44,549 --> 01:00:42,720
he was a wide-ranging journalist

1553
01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:44,559
let's put it that way yeah and one of

1554
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:48,240
them was the producer of a radio show

1555
01:00:54,390 --> 01:00:51,040
with a great name contact

1556
01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:54,400
perfect for kdka pittsburgh which is the

1557
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:57,680
big station in town the big media outlet

1558
01:01:02,150 --> 01:00:59,839
and so i called this producer and

1559
01:01:04,150 --> 01:01:02,160
thought that had come a westinghouse

1560
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:04,160
nuclear physicist that's worked kind of

1561
01:01:08,470 --> 01:01:05,920
a westinghouse town

1562
01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:08,480
or was westinghouse kind of gone down

1563
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:12,480
the tubes but at some extent

1564
01:01:17,589 --> 01:01:14,880
and so i thought you might want me to

1565
01:01:19,990 --> 01:01:17,599
have me as a guest on your show contact

1566
01:01:21,829 --> 01:01:20,000
don't call us we'll call you

1567
01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:21,839
okay what the heck well less than a

1568
01:01:27,430 --> 01:01:24,160
month later at 6 30 in the evening i get

1569
01:01:29,349 --> 01:01:27,440
a call from this producer uh we had a

1570
01:01:30,850 --> 01:01:29,359
cancellation any chance you could do the

1571
01:01:33,510 --> 01:01:30,860
show tonight at seven o'clock

1572
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:33,520
[Laughter]

1573
01:01:37,270 --> 01:01:35,280
well i was close to live close enough

1574
01:01:39,589 --> 01:01:37,280
decision have to go down there now they

1575
01:01:41,030 --> 01:01:39,599
didn't do it by the radio by telephone

1576
01:01:43,910 --> 01:01:41,040
at that point right

1577
01:01:46,470 --> 01:01:43,920
so i said yeah yeah i can do that

1578
01:01:48,470 --> 01:01:46,480
so i went down to the show now

1579
01:01:51,349 --> 01:01:48,480
admittedly i wasn't as sharp at dealing

1580
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:51,359
with nasty noisy negatives than as i am

1581
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:54,000
now i've heard all the entire arguments

1582
01:01:57,510 --> 01:01:56,000
right you acquire that as time goes on

1583
01:02:00,230 --> 01:01:57,520
right yes

1584
01:02:02,789 --> 01:02:00,240
and but anyway i did the show and

1585
01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:02,799
as it happens a woman at westinghouse

1586
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:04,880
where i worked at the astronaut food lab

1587
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:06,480
called me afterwards she happened to

1588
01:02:11,029 --> 01:02:08,400
hear the show and said stan

1589
01:02:12,630 --> 01:02:11,039
we're reading frank's book and my frank

1590
01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:12,640
edwards book

1591
01:02:18,230 --> 01:02:15,280
and my book review club

1592
01:02:20,470 --> 01:02:18,240
any chance you could give us a

1593
01:02:23,109 --> 01:02:20,480
lecture in my living room not sure why

1594
01:02:25,829 --> 01:02:23,119
not wasn't too far away i lived downtown

1595
01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:25,839
and so forth so that my first talk was

1596
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:29,280
in her living room a few dozen people

1597
01:02:35,750 --> 01:02:32,240
and the word got out and i did more

1598
01:02:39,029 --> 01:02:35,760
and then the i did the show again

1599
01:02:40,870 --> 01:02:39,039
and uh one day out of only two days in

1600
01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:40,880
three years that i drive to work from

1601
01:02:46,630 --> 01:02:42,960
downtown with joanne who was the

1602
01:02:48,390 --> 01:02:46,640
supervisor at westinghouse astronaut lab

1603
01:02:50,309 --> 01:02:48,400
and we were talking i was saying gee i'd

1604
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:50,319
sure like to speak at carnegie mellon

1605
01:02:55,750 --> 01:02:53,280
university the big university in town

1606
01:02:58,630 --> 01:02:55,760
and well did you talk to the dean

1607
01:03:00,150 --> 01:02:58,640
no i talked to so-and-so and he wasn't

1608
01:03:01,670 --> 01:03:00,160
interested she said stan the dean's my

1609
01:03:03,109 --> 01:03:01,680
husband give him a call he's heard you

1610
01:03:03,910 --> 01:03:03,119
on the radio

1611
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:03,920
oh

1612
01:03:09,670 --> 01:03:06,960
okay and so i called gene his name was

1613
01:03:13,029 --> 01:03:09,680
and we set a date right away uh four

1614
01:03:14,549 --> 01:03:13,039
weeks later and the last question was

1615
01:03:16,390 --> 01:03:14,559
how much do you want

1616
01:03:18,230 --> 01:03:16,400
well it was during the day so i'd have

1617
01:03:19,910 --> 01:03:18,240
to take some time off work because i

1618
01:03:22,789 --> 01:03:19,920
figured i ought to at least get

1619
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:22,799
recovered than my lost pay

1620
01:03:26,150 --> 01:03:24,799
uh and so i

1621
01:03:29,349 --> 01:03:26,160
how about a hundred dollars thinking

1622
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:29,359
he'd knocked me down to 50 to understand

1623
01:03:33,109 --> 01:03:31,520
and uh sure

1624
01:03:34,069 --> 01:03:33,119
and then he told me because i knew his

1625
01:03:35,670 --> 01:03:34,079
wife

1626
01:03:40,710 --> 01:03:35,680
what he was paying the other speakers in

1627
01:03:43,270 --> 01:03:42,470
wow

1628
01:03:45,589 --> 01:03:43,280
so

1629
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:45,599
but the the talk went extremely well we

1630
01:03:49,750 --> 01:03:47,200
had a big crowd

1631
01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:49,760
no nasty questions or anything

1632
01:03:53,990 --> 01:03:52,240
and he wrote a nice letter to the agent

1633
01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:54,000
from whom we had booked all these other

1634
01:03:58,069 --> 01:03:56,240
people and they booked me at a

1635
01:04:00,549 --> 01:03:58,079
breakthrough talk the engineering

1636
01:04:02,069 --> 01:04:00,559
society of detroit

1637
01:04:05,430 --> 01:04:02,079
wow

1638
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:05,440
300 bucks and expenses i'm in the big

1639
01:04:13,349 --> 01:04:11,430
well what what really shocked me and i

1640
01:04:15,829 --> 01:04:13,359
must admit i was surprised

1641
01:04:17,510 --> 01:04:15,839
they were sold out two weeks in advance

1642
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:17,520
for a thousand and eight people for

1643
01:04:21,270 --> 01:04:19,440
dinner and a talk and there were no

1644
01:04:23,029 --> 01:04:21,280
negative questions now that couldn't

1645
01:04:24,630 --> 01:04:23,039
help but impress me in the engineering

1646
01:04:26,470 --> 01:04:24,640
society of detroit we're not talking

1647
01:04:27,190 --> 01:04:26,480
about little ladies and tennis shoes you

1648
01:04:30,789 --> 01:04:27,200
know

1649
01:04:31,589 --> 01:04:30,799
or coach with 10 hats on yeah uh

1650
01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:31,599
and

1651
01:04:34,390 --> 01:04:33,359
again there were no negative questions

1652
01:04:36,630 --> 01:04:34,400
and then

1653
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:36,640
another talk that really impressed me

1654
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:38,960
was the local section of the american

1655
01:04:42,789 --> 01:04:40,319
institute of aeronautics and

1656
01:04:45,589 --> 01:04:42,799
astronautics got together

1657
01:04:48,069 --> 01:04:45,599
with the uh i guess it was the nuclear

1658
01:04:51,190 --> 01:04:48,079
society there were two groups

1659
01:04:53,190 --> 01:04:51,200
sponsored a joint lecture we had over

1660
01:04:54,710 --> 01:04:53,200
400 people there

1661
01:04:56,630 --> 01:04:54,720
and again some management at

1662
01:04:58,150 --> 01:04:56,640
westinghouse was there because it was

1663
01:05:00,870 --> 01:04:58,160
well publicized

1664
01:05:03,270 --> 01:05:00,880
and no negative questions and stuff

1665
01:05:06,069 --> 01:05:03,280
that had an impact because i got a call

1666
01:05:07,510 --> 01:05:06,079
from somebody at los alamos stan i

1667
01:05:09,750 --> 01:05:07,520
understand you're given lectures about

1668
01:05:11,430 --> 01:05:09,760
flying saucers uh

1669
01:05:12,390 --> 01:05:11,440
typically those flying saucers aren't

1670
01:05:13,829 --> 01:05:12,400
real

1671
01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:13,839
i said oh yeah he said well how about

1672
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:15,280
speaking to the local section of the

1673
01:05:19,430 --> 01:05:17,280
american nuclear society i said oh i'd

1674
01:05:21,829 --> 01:05:19,440
be delighted to no i mean on an expense

1675
01:05:23,829 --> 01:05:21,839
account stand well i i don't make those

1676
01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:23,839
decisions i'll ask management now i'm a

1677
01:05:28,069 --> 01:05:25,760
member of the american nuclear society

1678
01:05:30,069 --> 01:05:28,079
westinghouse was a corporate member and

1679
01:05:32,950 --> 01:05:30,079
of course losing almost was as well and

1680
01:05:34,870 --> 01:05:32,960
they said yes so they paid for me to go

1681
01:05:37,589 --> 01:05:34,880
on an expense again from pittsburgh to

1682
01:05:39,589 --> 01:05:37,599
los alamos to give a lecture and that

1683
01:05:41,510 --> 01:05:39,599
was pretty neat because they had over

1684
01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:41,520
400 people one of the best crowds they

1685
01:05:47,029 --> 01:05:44,480
ever had how can i not be respectful of

1686
01:05:49,510 --> 01:05:47,039
that audience i had been to los alamos

1687
01:05:50,630 --> 01:05:49,520
on business nuclear rockets and things

1688
01:05:52,870 --> 01:05:50,640
like that

1689
01:05:55,829 --> 01:05:52,880
these are professional people you know

1690
01:05:58,390 --> 01:05:55,839
yeah so when i get a good response from

1691
01:06:00,390 --> 01:05:58,400
these kinds of people that affects me

1692
01:06:01,750 --> 01:06:00,400
i'm i'm doing something useful in

1693
01:06:03,589 --> 01:06:01,760
sections of the american institute of

1694
01:06:05,829 --> 01:06:03,599
aeronautics and astronautics and

1695
01:06:07,349 --> 01:06:05,839
engineering society they were born

1696
01:06:09,109 --> 01:06:07,359
besides you know

1697
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:09,119
so it was in these circles and i

1698
01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:10,720
stressed that because

1699
01:06:13,910 --> 01:06:12,079
people tend to think well the only

1700
01:06:16,470 --> 01:06:13,920
people interested were nutty groups you

1701
01:06:19,510 --> 01:06:16,480
know the tinacry well it wasn't like

1702
01:06:22,549 --> 01:06:19,520
that at all absolutely and i mean i mean

1703
01:06:25,190 --> 01:06:22,559
since then you've done like got 600

1704
01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:25,200
college campuses every u.s state 10

1705
01:06:29,910 --> 01:06:27,760
canadian provinces like i've heard you

1706
01:06:32,549 --> 01:06:29,920
you're 18 other countries 19 other

1707
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:32,559
countries that's incredible these aren't

1708
01:06:38,069 --> 01:06:34,960
just i think like people think these

1709
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:38,079
small little groups of like 10 12 people

1710
01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:41,440
who are all hardcore believers these are

1711
01:06:46,470 --> 01:06:43,440
people that at all have genuine

1712
01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:46,480
questions and they want answers and you

1713
01:06:49,829 --> 01:06:48,160
know the fact that you know these the

1714
01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:49,839
people you're speaking to you know at

1715
01:06:55,029 --> 01:06:52,160
los alamos and all of these prestigious

1716
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:55,039
places how how was the response you said

1717
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:57,920
you know it was great yeah well i judged

1718
01:07:02,470 --> 01:07:00,079
by the question and answer period right

1719
01:07:03,990 --> 01:07:02,480
you know am i coming at me

1720
01:07:07,109 --> 01:07:04,000
and

1721
01:07:08,549 --> 01:07:07,119
i remember in one lecture first guy up

1722
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:08,559
in the uh

1723
01:07:12,789 --> 01:07:10,240
question and answer period

1724
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:12,799
i've never heard so much nonsense in one

1725
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:14,400
night in my life

1726
01:07:19,430 --> 01:07:16,559
that's a great way to start you know

1727
01:07:21,910 --> 01:07:19,440
and uh how did i pick him

1728
01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:21,920
and uh i said can you please be more

1729
01:07:25,510 --> 01:07:24,160
specific sir i'm glad i said that i

1730
01:07:26,870 --> 01:07:25,520
don't know if you would have asked me i

1731
01:07:29,430 --> 01:07:26,880
don't know what i would have said i

1732
01:07:31,750 --> 01:07:29,440
would say but that's what i did say

1733
01:07:33,190 --> 01:07:31,760
well you said that betty and barney hill

1734
01:07:37,670 --> 01:07:33,200
were taken

1735
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:37,680
to zeta reticuli and back in two hours

1736
01:07:42,630 --> 01:07:40,000
i said no sir what i said was they were

1737
01:07:43,829 --> 01:07:42,640
taken on board a craft they didn't go

1738
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:43,839
anywhere

1739
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:46,000
and there were a couple more equally

1740
01:07:49,829 --> 01:07:47,920
uninformed questions

1741
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:49,839
then finally after the third one

1742
01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:51,839
somebody which i had answered and

1743
01:07:57,990 --> 01:07:53,520
somebody in the audience says how about

1744
01:08:02,230 --> 01:08:00,390
this guy got up and left and i said i'll

1745
01:08:04,230 --> 01:08:02,240
take your question but who was that

1746
01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:04,240
obviously i hurt him well it turns out

1747
01:08:08,789 --> 01:08:06,400
he was a professor of physics okay i

1748
01:08:11,430 --> 01:08:08,799
hadn't heard what i said at all

1749
01:08:13,270 --> 01:08:11,440
so it alerted me to the fact that you

1750
01:08:15,990 --> 01:08:13,280
can come on pretty strong and you won't

1751
01:08:17,910 --> 01:08:16,000
get a hard respectable

1752
01:08:19,430 --> 01:08:17,920
hard time from people you know what i

1753
01:08:20,630 --> 01:08:19,440
mean yeah

1754
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:20,640
there's nothing wrong with asking

1755
01:08:25,590 --> 01:08:23,279
questions and uh one one guy in a

1756
01:08:27,829 --> 01:08:25,600
question and answer period uh i had

1757
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:27,839
given some data and i got a poll showing

1758
01:08:31,110 --> 01:08:29,440
that the greater the education the more

1759
01:08:32,630 --> 01:08:31,120
likely to believe in flying sausages

1760
01:08:33,510 --> 01:08:32,640
which comes as a surprise for a lot of

1761
01:08:34,950 --> 01:08:33,520
people

1762
01:08:36,550 --> 01:08:34,960
he said how about polling of this

1763
01:08:38,470 --> 01:08:36,560
audience

1764
01:08:40,709 --> 01:08:38,480
i said well this is uh university of

1765
01:08:42,630 --> 01:08:40,719
manitoba in winnipeg

1766
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:42,640
about 600 people they were sitting in

1767
01:08:47,590 --> 01:08:45,920
the aisles i said well i normally i'm

1768
01:08:49,030 --> 01:08:47,600
the one who sticks his neck out i'm not

1769
01:08:51,349 --> 01:08:49,040
asking the audience so he said i don't

1770
01:08:52,709 --> 01:08:51,359
think anybody mine and people clapped

1771
01:08:54,309 --> 01:08:52,719
they'd heard my lecture ready to

1772
01:08:56,390 --> 01:08:54,319
understand

1773
01:08:59,829 --> 01:08:56,400
and so i said okay i'll ask two

1774
01:09:01,110 --> 01:08:59,839
questions how many believe no ufos are

1775
01:09:03,749 --> 01:09:01,120
intelligently controlled

1776
01:09:06,550 --> 01:09:03,759
extraterrestrial spacecraft and how many

1777
01:09:08,630 --> 01:09:06,560
believe some ufos are intelligently

1778
01:09:09,990 --> 01:09:08,640
controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft i

1779
01:09:11,590 --> 01:09:10,000
asked those two questions separately i

1780
01:09:13,910 --> 01:09:11,600
told them what i was going to ask more

1781
01:09:16,229 --> 01:09:13,920
than 90 said they'd call it somewhere

1782
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:16,239
it's reassuring to me in other words

1783
01:09:21,110 --> 01:09:17,839
having gone through all this with all

1784
01:09:22,789 --> 01:09:21,120
these places and stuff that even though

1785
01:09:25,990 --> 01:09:22,799
people are always saying to me oh you

1786
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:26,000
must get a hard time i don't i really

1787
01:09:32,070 --> 01:09:27,040
don't

1788
01:09:33,990 --> 01:09:32,080
know to strain the nasty noisy

1789
01:09:35,189 --> 01:09:34,000
negativists i do this to present

1790
01:09:37,829 --> 01:09:35,199
information

1791
01:09:39,590 --> 01:09:37,839
and you know i'm a little sneaky

1792
01:09:41,590 --> 01:09:39,600
usually about five large-scale

1793
01:09:43,749 --> 01:09:41,600
scientific studies describe what's in

1794
01:09:47,030 --> 01:09:43,759
them show us why they go with and so

1795
01:09:49,510 --> 01:09:47,040
forth and then i casually asked how many

1796
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:49,520
people here have read this so typically

1797
01:09:53,749 --> 01:09:52,159
you know i might get five

1798
01:09:56,390 --> 01:09:53,759
if you're lucky yeah

1799
01:09:58,310 --> 01:09:56,400
yeah and so i know that most people

1800
01:10:00,950 --> 01:09:58,320
haven't looked at the evidence and i've

1801
01:10:03,910 --> 01:10:00,960
been told by people that

1802
01:10:06,229 --> 01:10:03,920
they were completely unaware of all this

1803
01:10:08,149 --> 01:10:06,239
data that i present because i'm a data

1804
01:10:10,149 --> 01:10:08,159
an evidence man

1805
01:10:13,189 --> 01:10:10,159
i talk about not only blue book special

1806
01:10:15,030 --> 01:10:13,199
report 14 i have copies for sale because

1807
01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:15,040
it wouldn't be fair for me to say oh

1808
01:10:18,310 --> 01:10:16,560
there's this wonderful study well i

1809
01:10:19,110 --> 01:10:18,320
don't know where you can get a copy but

1810
01:10:23,910 --> 01:10:19,120
uh

1811
01:10:25,750 --> 01:10:23,920
you're lying you know maybe it doesn't

1812
01:10:28,550 --> 01:10:25,760
say what you say it says etcetera so

1813
01:10:30,709 --> 01:10:28,560
here there are copies

1814
01:10:32,790 --> 01:10:30,719
yeah yeah backing backing it up i think

1815
01:10:34,790 --> 01:10:32,800
that's important and you know next week

1816
01:10:37,110 --> 01:10:34,800
we have cheryl costa on the show who

1817
01:10:39,030 --> 01:10:37,120
wrote a book about data and she told a

1818
01:10:41,910 --> 01:10:39,040
wonderful story about showing you the

1819
01:10:44,550 --> 01:10:41,920
book and you told her finally someone's

1820
01:10:46,870 --> 01:10:44,560
doing data i thought that was hilarious

1821
01:10:48,950 --> 01:10:46,880
well it's true that's a rare book

1822
01:10:51,590 --> 01:10:48,960
because it's got all kinds of

1823
01:10:54,630 --> 01:10:51,600
information about who see things and and

1824
01:10:57,350 --> 01:10:54,640
stuff and it's a big fat report

1825
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:57,360
it's not 20 pages kind of thing right

1826
01:11:01,030 --> 01:10:58,560
100

1827
01:11:02,229 --> 01:11:01,040
and so i hope she sells a ton of them

1828
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:02,239
because

1829
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:04,880
darn it conclusions about controversial

1830
01:11:10,470 --> 01:11:08,480
subjects should be based on evidence not

1831
01:11:13,110 --> 01:11:10,480
feelings not

1832
01:11:15,590 --> 01:11:13,120
theoretical not uh research by

1833
01:11:16,709 --> 01:11:15,600
proclamation which is what i run across

1834
01:11:18,709 --> 01:11:16,719
a lot

1835
01:11:20,870 --> 01:11:18,719
from the noisy negativist

1836
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:20,880
and so i'd like to have the data in my

1837
01:11:24,310 --> 01:11:22,480
pocket so to speak

1838
01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:24,320
why is it that most people don't believe

1839
01:11:28,229 --> 01:11:26,560
in ufos well you know what's a

1840
01:11:30,310 --> 01:11:28,239
reasonable number

1841
01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:30,320
yeah 20 20

1842
01:11:33,189 --> 01:11:31,600
that's a lot

1843
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:33,199
especially when the airport says three

1844
01:11:38,830 --> 01:11:36,320
percent that's right i i found there's

1845
01:11:42,229 --> 01:11:38,840
great interest all over the world

1846
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:42,239
and people are interested they ask

1847
01:11:45,750 --> 01:11:44,800
reasonable questions

1848
01:11:48,390 --> 01:11:45,760
and

1849
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:48,400
sometimes i have to say i don't know

1850
01:11:51,990 --> 01:11:50,640
you know i i don't tell them why does

1851
01:11:53,910 --> 01:11:52,000
the government do that i say well well

1852
01:11:56,070 --> 01:11:53,920
in the first place let's make clear i do

1853
01:11:57,430 --> 01:11:56,080
not speak for the government i speak for

1854
01:11:59,910 --> 01:11:57,440
me

1855
01:12:01,430 --> 01:11:59,920
so i can only hypothesize

1856
01:12:03,910 --> 01:12:01,440
on the other hand i do have some

1857
01:12:06,310 --> 01:12:03,920
advantages as a speaker and writer about

1858
01:12:09,830 --> 01:12:06,320
this subject one i worked under security

1859
01:12:11,750 --> 01:12:09,840
for 14 years i know how the system works

1860
01:12:13,590 --> 01:12:11,760
i had clearance for 14 years acute

1861
01:12:16,070 --> 01:12:13,600
clearance given me access to nuclear

1862
01:12:18,229 --> 01:12:16,080
data and stuff like that

1863
01:12:20,070 --> 01:12:18,239
two i worked on advanced propulsion

1864
01:12:22,709 --> 01:12:20,080
systems one of the biggest objections

1865
01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:22,719
from quote scientists unquote

1866
01:12:26,870 --> 01:12:24,960
you can't get here from stan have you

1867
01:12:28,870 --> 01:12:26,880
forgotten and you know things can't go

1868
01:12:29,990 --> 01:12:28,880
fast in the speed of light and they have

1869
01:12:32,550 --> 01:12:30,000
to come from

1870
01:12:34,950 --> 01:12:32,560
hundreds of light years away and which

1871
01:12:37,270 --> 01:12:34,960
is nonsense and that's one of

1872
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:37,280
the things that's changed our perception

1873
01:12:43,030 --> 01:12:39,760
of where we fit in the scheme of things

1874
01:12:45,110 --> 01:12:43,040
you know when frank drake in about 1960

1875
01:12:46,390 --> 01:12:45,120
first talked about

1876
01:12:47,910 --> 01:12:46,400
searching for extraterrestrial

1877
01:12:50,149 --> 01:12:47,920
intelligence he met with radio

1878
01:12:51,669 --> 01:12:50,159
telescopes of course but uh listening

1879
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:51,679
for signals

1880
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:53,520
because the astronomical community can't

1881
01:12:57,110 --> 01:12:55,120
imagine how anybody could go the

1882
01:12:58,550 --> 01:12:57,120
astronomical distances

1883
01:13:00,630 --> 01:12:58,560
but he thought there might be six

1884
01:13:05,030 --> 01:13:00,640
thousand places in the galaxy that could

1885
01:13:06,709 --> 01:13:05,040
be sending signals wow six thousand well

1886
01:13:08,550 --> 01:13:06,719
because there aren't many planets you

1887
01:13:10,709 --> 01:13:08,560
know there are many people saying hey we

1888
01:13:12,310 --> 01:13:10,719
got the only solar system man

1889
01:13:14,709 --> 01:13:12,320
that has changed with the kepler

1890
01:13:17,030 --> 01:13:14,719
satellite this incredible device which

1891
01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:17,040
goes out and back into this for several

1892
01:13:22,709 --> 01:13:19,360
years looking for planets

1893
01:13:24,149 --> 01:13:22,719
not easy to find even with a fancy piece

1894
01:13:27,430 --> 01:13:24,159
of equipment but if you're above the

1895
01:13:30,310 --> 01:13:27,440
atmosphere you can actually spot

1896
01:13:32,550 --> 01:13:30,320
the planet going across the face of its

1897
01:13:34,870 --> 01:13:32,560
star that's that's

1898
01:13:37,590 --> 01:13:34,880
pretty sensitive is what i'm a great

1899
01:13:38,709 --> 01:13:37,600
admirer of the technology

1900
01:13:40,310 --> 01:13:38,719
and so

1901
01:13:43,110 --> 01:13:40,320
when you do that

1902
01:13:44,149 --> 01:13:43,120
holy cow there are planets all over the

1903
01:13:46,149 --> 01:13:44,159
place

1904
01:13:48,149 --> 01:13:46,159
absence of evidence is not evidence for

1905
01:13:49,510 --> 01:13:48,159
absence that holds reflective saucers as

1906
01:13:52,630 --> 01:13:49,520
well the fact that you don't know about

1907
01:13:55,030 --> 01:13:52,640
it doesn't mean it's not true and so

1908
01:13:59,030 --> 01:13:55,040
the latest numbers suggest

1909
01:14:01,270 --> 01:13:59,040
that there's 1.6 planets per star on the

1910
01:14:04,630 --> 01:14:01,280
average now what does that mean to give

1911
01:14:06,950 --> 01:14:04,640
you a neighborhood survey so to speak

1912
01:14:08,790 --> 01:14:06,960
there are about 10 000 stars within a

1913
01:14:10,630 --> 01:14:08,800
hundred light years up here it's not

1914
01:14:11,590 --> 01:14:10,640
that i counted them the astronomers

1915
01:14:14,070 --> 01:14:11,600
counted

1916
01:14:16,950 --> 01:14:14,080
that means there are about 16 000

1917
01:14:20,709 --> 01:14:16,960
planets within 100 light years

1918
01:14:23,750 --> 01:14:20,719
so we go from frank's 6 000 planets

1919
01:14:25,910 --> 01:14:23,760
at least 6 billion

1920
01:14:27,669 --> 01:14:25,920
so there's several things that our

1921
01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:27,679
understanding has causes to change in

1922
01:14:31,189 --> 01:14:29,760
our review of that one is the number of

1923
01:14:33,990 --> 01:14:31,199
planets

1924
01:14:35,430 --> 01:14:34,000
one is and the number of stars too for

1925
01:14:38,310 --> 01:14:35,440
that matter remember at one time we

1926
01:14:40,950 --> 01:14:38,320
thought there was only one galaxy

1927
01:14:44,149 --> 01:14:40,960
sorry billions of them too folks

1928
01:14:47,590 --> 01:14:44,159
but beyond that we also in the 1920s we

1929
01:14:49,750 --> 01:14:47,600
thought the sun our star was a massive

1930
01:14:50,790 --> 01:14:49,760
burning gas and that's how the energy is

1931
01:14:52,870 --> 01:14:50,800
produced

1932
01:14:56,709 --> 01:14:52,880
by 1938

1933
01:14:58,950 --> 01:14:56,719
we suddenly realized uh oh

1934
01:15:00,630 --> 01:14:58,960
ain't no way and get enough energy by

1935
01:15:03,669 --> 01:15:00,640
you know the mass of the sun and we know

1936
01:15:06,470 --> 01:15:03,679
the energy output and stuff

1937
01:15:10,390 --> 01:15:06,480
somebody's very smart physicist figured

1938
01:15:12,390 --> 01:15:10,400
out that it was nuclear fusion which

1939
01:15:15,430 --> 01:15:12,400
nobody knew anything about before that

1940
01:15:18,229 --> 01:15:15,440
really uh hydrogen and helium and heavy

1941
01:15:20,630 --> 01:15:18,239
hydrogen and stuff like that and

1942
01:15:22,790 --> 01:15:20,640
they were talking about

1943
01:15:25,830 --> 01:15:22,800
an incredible increase in the amount of

1944
01:15:27,430 --> 01:15:25,840
energy per pound of stuff uh and then

1945
01:15:30,870 --> 01:15:27,440
you can see that

1946
01:15:33,189 --> 01:15:30,880
if you take a big bomb in world war ii

1947
01:15:35,510 --> 01:15:33,199
it released the energy of about 10 tons

1948
01:15:36,950 --> 01:15:35,520
of dynamite and make a big hole in the

1949
01:15:39,270 --> 01:15:36,960
ground too

1950
01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:39,280
it was called a blockbuster

1951
01:15:45,590 --> 01:15:42,000
well the first atomic bomb efficient

1952
01:15:49,910 --> 01:15:45,600
device in 1945 released the energy of

1953
01:15:51,590 --> 01:15:49,920
15 000 tons of dynamite not 10 but 15

1954
01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:51,600
000

1955
01:15:57,270 --> 01:15:54,560
the first fusion device fusion is what

1956
01:15:59,270 --> 01:15:57,280
powers all the stars the first fusion

1957
01:16:03,750 --> 01:15:59,280
device released the energy of 10 million

1958
01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:03,760
tons of dynamite that was an hbo in 1952

1959
01:16:10,790 --> 01:16:06,800
and the russians sent one off in 61 i

1960
01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:10,800
guess it was tarbamba 15 million tons of

1961
01:16:14,229 --> 01:16:13,440
dynamite one stinking weapon

1962
01:16:15,830 --> 01:16:14,239
i mean

1963
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:15,840
and the important the reason i go

1964
01:16:20,709 --> 01:16:18,719
through this is that suddenly

1965
01:16:22,149 --> 01:16:20,719
you've got not only a way of mass

1966
01:16:26,310 --> 01:16:22,159
destruction

1967
01:16:28,470 --> 01:16:26,320
but propulsion to the stars exactly yeah

1968
01:16:30,790 --> 01:16:28,480
and i worked on a study of fusion

1969
01:16:34,149 --> 01:16:30,800
propulsion for deep space travel

1970
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:36,229
general nucleonics

1971
01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:38,239
my boss was john moos

1972
01:16:43,110 --> 01:16:41,440
and dr luce was a brilliant guy and

1973
01:16:45,990 --> 01:16:43,120
worked he was head of the fusion work at

1974
01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:46,000
oak ridge and we hired him away

1975
01:16:52,470 --> 01:16:49,280
and uh he had 40 patents this was a

1976
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:52,480
clever man gentleman too and we did a

1977
01:16:56,709 --> 01:16:54,880
study and concluded that well if you

1978
01:16:58,070 --> 01:16:56,719
want to put out the dough you can go and

1979
01:16:59,189 --> 01:16:58,080
put it simply

1980
01:17:00,950 --> 01:16:59,199
right

1981
01:17:02,709 --> 01:17:00,960
it won't be cheap

1982
01:17:05,110 --> 01:17:02,719
and when i was working when i say it

1983
01:17:06,470 --> 01:17:05,120
won't be cheap many people have no idea

1984
01:17:08,790 --> 01:17:06,480
that because they don't work in that

1985
01:17:11,110 --> 01:17:08,800
crazy world of advanced

1986
01:17:14,709 --> 01:17:11,120
technology development i was working on

1987
01:17:19,030 --> 01:17:14,719
nuclear airplanes in 1958 at ge our

1988
01:17:22,149 --> 01:17:19,040
budget that year was 100 million dollars

1989
01:17:24,149 --> 01:17:22,159
we employed 3 400 people of room 1100 or

1990
01:17:26,149 --> 01:17:24,159
engineers and scientists we're not

1991
01:17:28,830 --> 01:17:26,159
talking about six professors and 12 grad

1992
01:17:31,750 --> 01:17:28,840
students here they're big

1993
01:17:34,310 --> 01:17:31,760
programs the stealth aircraft must about

1994
01:17:37,590 --> 01:17:34,320
the 10 billion dollars over 10 years in

1995
01:17:39,830 --> 01:17:37,600
secret for lying so uh that that's an

1996
01:17:41,830 --> 01:17:39,840
important part of this in other words a

1997
01:17:43,750 --> 01:17:41,840
few guys can't it's not a question for

1998
01:17:46,390 --> 01:17:43,760
you guys getting together and deciding

1999
01:17:49,189 --> 01:17:46,400
how let's see what we can do about this

2000
01:17:51,590 --> 01:17:49,199
it takes a major effort

2001
01:17:53,510 --> 01:17:51,600
and the taxpayer you know we've had a

2002
01:17:55,990 --> 01:17:53,520
lot of these big programs most of them

2003
01:17:57,910 --> 01:17:56,000
have gone nowhere some of them have gone

2004
01:18:00,870 --> 01:17:57,920
everywhere kind of like the manhattan

2005
01:18:03,270 --> 01:18:00,880
project for example with their weapons

2006
01:18:05,510 --> 01:18:03,280
the stealth aircraft

2007
01:18:07,830 --> 01:18:05,520
the first star first spy satellite the

2008
01:18:09,750 --> 01:18:07,840
corona spy satellite

2009
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:09,760
and i have no idea whether that name

2010
01:18:15,430 --> 01:18:11,760
came because the roswell incident

2011
01:18:16,229 --> 01:18:15,440
actually happened just outside corona

2012
01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:16,239
but

2013
01:18:21,430 --> 01:18:19,120
the corona spy satellite the first 12

2014
01:18:23,750 --> 01:18:21,440
launches they knew that the u2 was going

2015
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:23,760
to get shot down as it did

2016
01:18:29,350 --> 01:18:26,400
because the rations were getting smarter

2017
01:18:31,350 --> 01:18:29,360
they started in in the 50s the first 12

2018
01:18:34,149 --> 01:18:31,360
launches were failures

2019
01:18:35,830 --> 01:18:34,159
those are expensive in secret nobody

2020
01:18:37,350 --> 01:18:35,840
knew about it see so nobody can say what

2021
01:18:40,709 --> 01:18:37,360
are you spending our money for blowing

2022
01:18:42,709 --> 01:18:40,719
things up the 13th one was a success and

2023
01:18:45,270 --> 01:18:42,719
got more data

2024
01:18:47,350 --> 01:18:45,280
than all the youtube flights that had

2025
01:18:49,430 --> 01:18:47,360
preceded it about what was going on in

2026
01:18:51,510 --> 01:18:49,440
russia i mean a satellite you know is in

2027
01:18:54,229 --> 01:18:51,520
constant operation and spend a lot of

2028
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:54,239
time going right over the soviet union

2029
01:18:59,830 --> 01:18:56,480
the whole program was done in secret and

2030
01:19:04,149 --> 01:18:59,840
i loved the way they got their data back

2031
01:19:05,910 --> 01:19:04,159
they deorbited the film canisters

2032
01:19:07,910 --> 01:19:05,920
which were caught in the air by air

2033
01:19:09,669 --> 01:19:07,920
force fine they released them over the

2034
01:19:11,830 --> 01:19:09,679
pacific and of course she knew where

2035
01:19:14,390 --> 01:19:11,840
things were going and the

2036
01:19:15,270 --> 01:19:14,400
orbits are predictable and so forth

2037
01:19:16,709 --> 01:19:15,280
but

2038
01:19:19,510 --> 01:19:16,719
it's kind of a different way of getting

2039
01:19:21,990 --> 01:19:19,520
data back isn't it yeah absolutely well

2040
01:19:23,990 --> 01:19:22,000
you got a problem you got a solution you

2041
01:19:25,910 --> 01:19:24,000
don't have a better solution we need the

2042
01:19:28,950 --> 01:19:25,920
information let's do it

2043
01:19:31,830 --> 01:19:28,960
and when it comes to national defense uh

2044
01:19:33,590 --> 01:19:31,840
cost is not the paramount concern you

2045
01:19:35,990 --> 01:19:33,600
know what i mean yeah how much is going

2046
01:19:38,070 --> 01:19:36,000
to cost okay yes if that's what it costs

2047
01:19:40,950 --> 01:19:38,080
us what we'll spend because

2048
01:19:43,189 --> 01:19:40,960
it was absolutely essential

2049
01:19:45,750 --> 01:19:43,199
that we know whether the russians were

2050
01:19:48,229 --> 01:19:45,760
gearing up to attack us yeah there were

2051
01:19:51,189 --> 01:19:48,239
many people who said they were and so

2052
01:19:52,310 --> 01:19:51,199
the fact that we could get actual data

2053
01:19:54,070 --> 01:19:52,320
evidence

2054
01:19:55,669 --> 01:19:54,080
that showed that they weren't building

2055
01:19:57,910 --> 01:19:55,679
up all over

2056
01:19:59,669 --> 01:19:57,920
was very important and probably kept us

2057
01:20:01,189 --> 01:19:59,679
from having a war because there were

2058
01:20:03,110 --> 01:20:01,199
many people who would say well if they

2059
01:20:06,070 --> 01:20:03,120
are we better get them before they get

2060
01:20:08,229 --> 01:20:06,080
up exactly can you imagine what that

2061
01:20:10,790 --> 01:20:08,239
would have resulted in you know i'll

2062
01:20:13,030 --> 01:20:10,800
drop my bomb then you drop yours and you

2063
01:20:16,149 --> 01:20:13,040
know we have a long history of

2064
01:20:19,030 --> 01:20:16,159
underestimating the russians in 1948

2065
01:20:21,750 --> 01:20:19,040
general leslie groves who headed our

2066
01:20:23,750 --> 01:20:21,760
nuclear weapons the manhattan project

2067
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:23,760
was asked how long do you think it'll

2068
01:20:28,709 --> 01:20:25,760
take before the russians build the

2069
01:20:30,629 --> 01:20:28,719
nuclear weapon well he went on for some

2070
01:20:32,390 --> 01:20:30,639
time that the russians you know didn't

2071
01:20:33,590 --> 01:20:32,400
they had lost 20 million people during

2072
01:20:35,350 --> 01:20:33,600
the war

2073
01:20:37,830 --> 01:20:35,360
they didn't have the industrial capacity

2074
01:20:40,470 --> 01:20:37,840
we had they've been bombed all the hell

2075
01:20:44,470 --> 01:20:40,480
uh probably taken at least eight years

2076
01:20:46,390 --> 01:20:44,480
well said this in august of 48 about 13

2077
01:20:49,510 --> 01:20:46,400
months later the russians set off their

2078
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:49,520
first bomb we had vastly underestimated

2079
01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:52,320
them we did not have in two ways

2080
01:20:57,030 --> 01:20:54,960
we didn't have a radar net

2081
01:20:58,629 --> 01:20:57,040
what do we got to worry about you know

2082
01:21:00,149 --> 01:20:58,639
and then

2083
01:21:01,270 --> 01:21:00,159
we thought they didn't have any big

2084
01:21:02,470 --> 01:21:01,280
airplanes

2085
01:21:04,070 --> 01:21:02,480
and they certainly didn't show any

2086
01:21:06,390 --> 01:21:04,080
during the war and then all of a sudden

2087
01:21:08,950 --> 01:21:06,400
that one of these big mayday uh

2088
01:21:11,270 --> 01:21:08,960
celebrations i'll call it here come all

2089
01:21:14,629 --> 01:21:11,280
these big airplanes

2090
01:21:16,870 --> 01:21:14,639
son of a gun they look just like b-29s

2091
01:21:19,669 --> 01:21:16,880
what they had done we had left the b-29

2092
01:21:21,270 --> 01:21:19,679
over there was bringing len lee's stuff

2093
01:21:23,510 --> 01:21:21,280
and there was some something wrong with

2094
01:21:24,870 --> 01:21:23,520
it and they couldn't send it back and

2095
01:21:27,990 --> 01:21:24,880
they copied it

2096
01:21:30,310 --> 01:21:28,000
chinese copy

2097
01:21:31,910 --> 01:21:30,320
and they built the whole bunch these

2098
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:31,920
these stupid

2099
01:21:36,390 --> 01:21:33,920
you know eastern europeans

2100
01:21:38,950 --> 01:21:36,400
they don't have harvard yale after all

2101
01:21:41,350 --> 01:21:38,960
well that was very much the attitude and

2102
01:21:43,110 --> 01:21:41,360
it cost us because that gave them a

2103
01:21:44,790 --> 01:21:43,120
chance to catch up much more than they

2104
01:21:46,629 --> 01:21:44,800
would otherwise if we'd recognize that

2105
01:21:48,709 --> 01:21:46,639
they had the capability yeah they'd gone

2106
01:21:50,790 --> 01:21:48,719
through a war but that didn't mean they

2107
01:21:52,629 --> 01:21:50,800
were stupid there had been nobel prizes

2108
01:21:55,750 --> 01:21:52,639
given to russian scientists believe it

2109
01:21:58,149 --> 01:21:55,760
or not guys but uh i'm sensitive about

2110
01:21:59,910 --> 01:21:58,159
this because my home for my grandparents

2111
01:22:02,390 --> 01:21:59,920
were russians

2112
01:22:05,030 --> 01:22:02,400
that's understandable absolutely what

2113
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:05,040
i'm saying is things move in mysterious

2114
01:22:09,830 --> 01:22:07,440
ways in this world of war why things get

2115
01:22:11,110 --> 01:22:09,840
done or don't get done who does them and

2116
01:22:13,990 --> 01:22:11,120
so forth

2117
01:22:15,189 --> 01:22:14,000
can be totally wrong and you know i've

2118
01:22:16,870 --> 01:22:15,199
talked my

2119
01:22:20,470 --> 01:22:16,880
uncle had come over the united states

2120
01:22:22,709 --> 01:22:20,480
from germany in 1938 and he had tried to

2121
01:22:24,310 --> 01:22:22,719
get more of the family to come with them

2122
01:22:25,990 --> 01:22:24,320
because he saw the handwriting on the

2123
01:22:28,950 --> 01:22:26,000
wall and hitler was talking about what

2124
01:22:31,590 --> 01:22:28,960
he was going to do and jews were not

2125
01:22:34,310 --> 01:22:31,600
in good shape over there but he couldn't

2126
01:22:36,709 --> 01:22:34,320
get relatives this is germany the land

2127
01:22:39,510 --> 01:22:36,719
of good and beethoven you know it

2128
01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:39,520
wouldn't do stuff like that that's crazy

2129
01:22:43,990 --> 01:22:42,080
so they wouldn't leave and they got

2130
01:22:46,229 --> 01:22:44,000
slaughtered in the concentration camps

2131
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:46,239
because it's hard to believe that other

2132
01:22:51,189 --> 01:22:48,719
earthlings will behave that badly toward

2133
01:22:54,709 --> 01:22:51,199
other earthlings you know yeah until it

2134
01:22:57,270 --> 01:22:54,719
happens yeah after it happens oh yeah i

2135
01:22:59,030 --> 01:22:57,280
guess we should have realized that

2136
01:23:01,590 --> 01:22:59,040
what i'm saying is we make judgments

2137
01:23:02,870 --> 01:23:01,600
often based on insufficient information

2138
01:23:04,790 --> 01:23:02,880
it's one of the things that

2139
01:23:07,990 --> 01:23:04,800
characterizes the attitude of the

2140
01:23:09,669 --> 01:23:08,000
astronomical community about ufos they

2141
01:23:11,669 --> 01:23:09,679
don't think you can get here from there

2142
01:23:13,189 --> 01:23:11,679
they don't think people can keep secrets

2143
01:23:14,390 --> 01:23:13,199
they don't think there's any evidence

2144
01:23:16,149 --> 01:23:14,400
and so therefore they're not going to

2145
01:23:18,390 --> 01:23:16,159
look for any evidence and it's a

2146
01:23:20,709 --> 01:23:18,400
constant problem when i look at

2147
01:23:22,390 --> 01:23:20,719
astronomical text where's the reference

2148
01:23:24,790 --> 01:23:22,400
to the large-scale scientific studies

2149
01:23:28,229 --> 01:23:24,800
about ufos although dismissed ufos are

2150
01:23:30,229 --> 01:23:28,239
right and my height my college classmate

2151
01:23:31,750 --> 01:23:30,239
carl sagan for three years

2152
01:23:33,110 --> 01:23:31,760
and two different books said there are

2153
01:23:34,390 --> 01:23:33,120
interesting sightings that aren't

2154
01:23:37,990 --> 01:23:34,400
reliable

2155
01:23:39,990 --> 01:23:38,000
interesting but there are no interesting

2156
01:23:41,990 --> 01:23:40,000
and reliable settings no evidence was

2157
01:23:43,830 --> 01:23:42,000
provided to substantiate this totally

2158
01:23:46,070 --> 01:23:43,840
false statement it's exactly the

2159
01:23:47,669 --> 01:23:46,080
opposite the blue book special report 14

2160
01:23:49,990 --> 01:23:47,679
showed the better the quality of the

2161
01:23:52,950 --> 01:23:50,000
sighting the reliability

2162
01:23:54,870 --> 01:23:52,960
the more likely to be unexplainable but

2163
01:23:56,310 --> 01:23:54,880
don't bother me with the facts my mind's

2164
01:23:58,709 --> 01:23:56,320
made up

2165
01:24:00,229 --> 01:23:58,719
and that same applies so you can't get

2166
01:24:01,669 --> 01:24:00,239
here from there

2167
01:24:03,189 --> 01:24:01,679
now why would anybody expect an

2168
01:24:05,590 --> 01:24:03,199
astronomer to know anything about

2169
01:24:07,830 --> 01:24:05,600
advanced propulsion systems think about

2170
01:24:09,669 --> 01:24:07,840
that that's not his baliwick

2171
01:24:11,910 --> 01:24:09,679
well i worked on nuclear airplanes

2172
01:24:16,070 --> 01:24:11,920
nuclear rockets and i wonder how many

2173
01:24:19,030 --> 01:24:16,080
people listening are aware that in 1969

2174
01:24:21,270 --> 01:24:19,040
three different organizations operated

2175
01:24:23,590 --> 01:24:21,280
nuclear fission rocket reactor

2176
01:24:25,510 --> 01:24:23,600
propulsion systems on the ground

2177
01:24:29,910 --> 01:24:25,520
these weren't little toys

2178
01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:29,920
now at westinghouse we tested the nrx a6

2179
01:24:33,590 --> 01:24:32,239
fancy title it was less than eight feet

2180
01:24:35,669 --> 01:24:33,600
in diameter

2181
01:24:38,229 --> 01:24:35,679
liquid hydrogen propellant

2182
01:24:39,990 --> 01:24:38,239
went in very cold and came out at four

2183
01:24:42,550 --> 01:24:40,000
thousand degrees

2184
01:24:45,590 --> 01:24:42,560
the power level was a thousand in our

2185
01:24:47,910 --> 01:24:45,600
case eleven hundred megawatts

2186
01:24:49,110 --> 01:24:47,920
now hoover dam produces two thousand

2187
01:24:51,510 --> 01:24:49,120
megawatts

2188
01:24:53,350 --> 01:24:51,520
hoover dam is enormous

2189
01:24:55,430 --> 01:24:53,360
ours was eleven hundred megawatts

2190
01:24:56,629 --> 01:24:55,440
aerojet tested one of the thousand

2191
01:24:58,709 --> 01:24:56,639
megawatts

2192
01:25:00,870 --> 01:24:58,719
in los alamos

2193
01:25:04,070 --> 01:25:00,880
scientific laboratory tested the big

2194
01:25:05,830 --> 01:25:04,080
daddy phoebus 2b nuclear rocket reactor

2195
01:25:08,470 --> 01:25:05,840
propulsion system

2196
01:25:10,390 --> 01:25:08,480
also under 8 feet in diameter

2197
01:25:13,990 --> 01:25:10,400
and also with an exhaust temperature of

2198
01:25:15,990 --> 01:25:14,000
4 000 degrees not much works at 4 000

2199
01:25:17,590 --> 01:25:16,000
degrees that we know how to make i'd

2200
01:25:21,590 --> 01:25:17,600
better add

2201
01:25:24,390 --> 01:25:21,600
and the power level was 4 000 megawatts

2202
01:25:26,629 --> 01:25:24,400
twice over damn now we these were all

2203
01:25:27,990 --> 01:25:26,639
successful and we were so delighted

2204
01:25:30,790 --> 01:25:28,000
because we listened and we didn't know

2205
01:25:33,910 --> 01:25:30,800
whether our system would work well

2206
01:25:36,550 --> 01:25:33,920
nobody done it before yeah right

2207
01:25:38,550 --> 01:25:36,560
and what joy can they cancel the damn

2208
01:25:44,709 --> 01:25:38,560
program you know

2209
01:25:50,070 --> 01:25:46,870
hey guys ryan here the summer in the

2210
01:25:52,229 --> 01:25:50,080
skies podcast is a labor of love every

2211
01:25:54,709 --> 01:25:52,239
week and with that comes many different

2212
01:25:57,430 --> 01:25:54,719
costs to keep the show running that's

2213
01:25:59,510 --> 01:25:57,440
where our patreon campaign comes in you

2214
01:26:01,910 --> 01:25:59,520
give what you think the show is worth

2215
01:26:03,830 --> 01:26:01,920
there's different rewards available all

2216
01:26:06,310 --> 01:26:03,840
the time including shout outs on the

2217
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:06,320
show early editions of main episodes

2218
01:26:11,669 --> 01:26:09,199
bonus episodes and content and very soon

2219
01:26:15,030 --> 01:26:11,679
monthly patron hangouts where we sit

2220
01:26:16,709 --> 01:26:15,040
back and chat all things ufos so i hope

2221
01:26:19,270 --> 01:26:16,719
you'll consider becoming a patreon

2222
01:26:20,830 --> 01:26:19,280
subscriber today to learn more and to

2223
01:26:24,149 --> 01:26:20,840
join visit

2224
01:26:35,590 --> 01:26:24,159
patreon.com slash somewhere skies thank

2225
01:26:40,229 --> 01:26:38,070
okay so we have this idea of like you

2226
01:26:42,550 --> 01:26:40,239
know the physics and the propulsion

2227
01:26:43,510 --> 01:26:42,560
behind it and then you have the people

2228
01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:43,520
who

2229
01:26:49,669 --> 01:26:47,920
of the cases you brought up was betty

2230
01:26:51,590 --> 01:26:49,679
and barney hill in the idea of like how

2231
01:26:53,830 --> 01:26:51,600
could they get here this that where did

2232
01:26:56,229 --> 01:26:53,840
the hills go i would love to know how

2233
01:26:59,030 --> 01:26:56,239
you got involved with a betty and barney

2234
01:27:01,030 --> 01:26:59,040
hill case and with working on your your

2235
01:27:03,350 --> 01:27:01,040
your books with kathleen martin i've

2236
01:27:05,270 --> 01:27:03,360
read the book the interrupted journey by

2237
01:27:06,390 --> 01:27:05,280
john fuller the betting barney hill

2238
01:27:09,350 --> 01:27:06,400
story

2239
01:27:12,229 --> 01:27:09,360
and then i had the lucky opportunity and

2240
01:27:15,030 --> 01:27:12,239
going back to westinghouse again i did

2241
01:27:16,870 --> 01:27:15,040
media stuff there and the guys from the

2242
01:27:19,830 --> 01:27:16,880
the same talk show that i had been on

2243
01:27:22,070 --> 01:27:19,840
that got me moving along

2244
01:27:23,750 --> 01:27:22,080
called me and said we're bringing betty

2245
01:27:25,350 --> 01:27:23,760
and bernie hill to town we thought you

2246
01:27:27,669 --> 01:27:25,360
might like to know and they told me

2247
01:27:29,110 --> 01:27:27,679
where they were staying which is very

2248
01:27:31,510 --> 01:27:29,120
unusual

2249
01:27:33,669 --> 01:27:31,520
that's usually not stuff information

2250
01:27:35,669 --> 01:27:33,679
about so i called

2251
01:27:37,229 --> 01:27:35,679
and i had dinner with them this is about

2252
01:27:41,669 --> 01:27:37,239
65

2253
01:27:43,189 --> 01:27:41,679
and i was listening to see if they'd

2254
01:27:45,350 --> 01:27:43,199
said anything that

2255
01:27:47,030 --> 01:27:45,360
expanded upon what was in the book you

2256
01:27:48,550 --> 01:27:47,040
know where they're going to exaggerate

2257
01:27:50,149 --> 01:27:48,560
and they weren't i was very favorably

2258
01:27:52,310 --> 01:27:50,159
impressed with them

2259
01:27:53,669 --> 01:27:52,320
i mean betty is a social worker barney's

2260
01:27:56,310 --> 01:27:53,679
has civil rights

2261
01:27:57,510 --> 01:27:56,320
i mean activists and work for the post

2262
01:28:00,470 --> 01:27:57,520
office but

2263
01:28:03,110 --> 01:28:00,480
i was very impressed and then i was the

2264
01:28:06,229 --> 01:28:03,120
first to do work on

2265
01:28:08,870 --> 01:28:06,239
i encouraged marjorie fish

2266
01:28:11,430 --> 01:28:08,880
on the betty in barney hills star betty

2267
01:28:14,310 --> 01:28:11,440
hill star map i got a call from coral

2268
01:28:16,950 --> 01:28:14,320
lorenzen at april the aerial phenomena

2269
01:28:18,709 --> 01:28:16,960
research organization marjorie asked her

2270
01:28:21,110 --> 01:28:18,719
for the names of any scientist that

2271
01:28:24,229 --> 01:28:21,120
could maybe she could work with or talk

2272
01:28:25,590 --> 01:28:24,239
to or so forth and she called me and you

2273
01:28:26,950 --> 01:28:25,600
know can i give her your name and so

2274
01:28:28,950 --> 01:28:26,960
forth and i said oh sure i'd be

2275
01:28:31,270 --> 01:28:28,960
delighted and so i was traveling a great

2276
01:28:33,110 --> 01:28:31,280
deal and i was near toledo ohio i

2277
01:28:34,950 --> 01:28:33,120
stopped by to see marjorie saw some of

2278
01:28:37,350 --> 01:28:34,960
her star map models i was the first to

2279
01:28:39,270 --> 01:28:37,360
publish about her star map models

2280
01:28:41,830 --> 01:28:39,280
indicating they came from zeta one or

2281
01:28:43,510 --> 01:28:41,840
zeta two reticuli in the constellation

2282
01:28:46,470 --> 01:28:43,520
of reticulum

2283
01:28:49,110 --> 01:28:46,480
39 light years away as it happens

2284
01:28:52,149 --> 01:28:49,120
so i got involved early on

2285
01:28:55,750 --> 01:28:52,159
published a paper in saga magazine about

2286
01:28:57,030 --> 01:28:55,760
the start up with the bobby and slate

2287
01:28:59,750 --> 01:28:57,040
i wasn't

2288
01:29:02,149 --> 01:28:59,760
writing much myself at that time worked

2289
01:29:04,229 --> 01:29:02,159
with other people and that then i

2290
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:04,239
encouraged terry dickinson who was

2291
01:29:08,310 --> 01:29:07,040
editor of astronomy magazine i'd gotten

2292
01:29:10,790 --> 01:29:08,320
to know him he came to one of my

2293
01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:10,800
lectures in milwaukee and uh

2294
01:29:14,870 --> 01:29:12,719
he's still around he's not editing he's

2295
01:29:17,430 --> 01:29:14,880
retired like i'm supposed to be at the

2296
01:29:19,910 --> 01:29:17,440
end of this year oh yeah we'll get into

2297
01:29:22,310 --> 01:29:19,920
that a little later for sure don't think

2298
01:29:24,870 --> 01:29:22,320
i wasn't gonna bring that up well the

2299
01:29:27,270 --> 01:29:24,880
the kicker is that uh

2300
01:29:29,430 --> 01:29:27,280
the response to the article in astronomy

2301
01:29:31,750 --> 01:29:29,440
magazine uh which he did in my

2302
01:29:34,229 --> 01:29:31,760
suggestion and talked to a lot of people

2303
01:29:36,550 --> 01:29:34,239
i i didn't force his hand at all got

2304
01:29:38,390 --> 01:29:36,560
more reaction than anything they'd ever

2305
01:29:40,070 --> 01:29:38,400
published before

2306
01:29:41,750 --> 01:29:40,080
so they published a number of letters

2307
01:29:44,709 --> 01:29:41,760
over the next year and then they put out

2308
01:29:47,910 --> 01:29:44,719
a 32-page full-color booklet the zeta

2309
01:29:50,390 --> 01:29:47,920
reticuli incident they immediately sold

2310
01:29:52,870 --> 01:29:50,400
10 000 copies which is unheard of for

2311
01:29:54,070 --> 01:29:52,880
this kind of thing

2312
01:29:55,510 --> 01:29:54,080
and then

2313
01:29:58,390 --> 01:29:55,520
the publisher

2314
01:29:59,430 --> 01:29:58,400
was put under a lot of pressure

2315
01:30:01,350 --> 01:29:59,440
and they

2316
01:30:03,990 --> 01:30:01,360
decided to sell the rest of them they

2317
01:30:05,830 --> 01:30:04,000
printed 30 000 copies i think and they

2318
01:30:07,510 --> 01:30:05,840
made me an offer i couldn't refuse and i

2319
01:30:09,110 --> 01:30:07,520
wound up with sixteen thousand copies in

2320
01:30:10,950 --> 01:30:09,120
my garage

2321
01:30:12,310 --> 01:30:10,960
sold them all

2322
01:30:14,390 --> 01:30:12,320
wow

2323
01:30:16,629 --> 01:30:14,400
i'd sell them again beautiful colored

2324
01:30:17,910 --> 01:30:16,639
thirty-two page full color uh there's

2325
01:30:21,270 --> 01:30:17,920
eight or ten

2326
01:30:23,350 --> 01:30:21,280
but but meanwhile i had seen betty

2327
01:30:26,070 --> 01:30:23,360
i was working on a movie ufos are real

2328
01:30:28,070 --> 01:30:26,080
and visited her with a camera crew

2329
01:30:30,470 --> 01:30:28,080
we had done the uh tomorrow show

2330
01:30:32,229 --> 01:30:30,480
together betty and i with tom snyder and

2331
01:30:34,470 --> 01:30:32,239
i i have to give him credit for

2332
01:30:36,149 --> 01:30:34,480
something uh

2333
01:30:38,070 --> 01:30:36,159
some media people are really worthwhile

2334
01:30:40,790 --> 01:30:38,080
he was one of them uh merv griffin was

2335
01:30:42,470 --> 01:30:40,800
another but with tom

2336
01:30:45,189 --> 01:30:42,480
uh he brought

2337
01:30:46,629 --> 01:30:45,199
betty out first then he brought me out i

2338
01:30:49,830 --> 01:30:46,639
was in the

2339
01:30:50,950 --> 01:30:49,840
green room and there was no audience and

2340
01:30:52,870 --> 01:30:50,960
we were

2341
01:30:55,270 --> 01:30:52,880
taping segments and

2342
01:30:57,189 --> 01:30:55,280
i said you know i told him i said the

2343
01:30:58,310 --> 01:30:57,199
public won't know that betty is a social

2344
01:31:00,470 --> 01:30:58,320
worker

2345
01:31:03,110 --> 01:31:00,480
he's a very respectable individual she's

2346
01:31:05,189 --> 01:31:03,120
not that woman who's scrubbing the floor

2347
01:31:07,030 --> 01:31:05,199
and so the first question when he came

2348
01:31:08,470 --> 01:31:07,040
back on is he asked betty about her

2349
01:31:09,830 --> 01:31:08,480
background

2350
01:31:12,550 --> 01:31:09,840
so i give him credit for that not

2351
01:31:14,310 --> 01:31:12,560
everybody would do that right

2352
01:31:15,830 --> 01:31:14,320
and then something else at the end of

2353
01:31:18,149 --> 01:31:15,840
the show

2354
01:31:19,430 --> 01:31:18,159
he stood up he had been sitting down all

2355
01:31:21,430 --> 01:31:19,440
the time

2356
01:31:22,470 --> 01:31:21,440
instead of a gun he's about six foot

2357
01:31:25,590 --> 01:31:22,480
seven

2358
01:31:29,350 --> 01:31:25,600
and betty is five feet and i'm five and

2359
01:31:33,510 --> 01:31:31,110
what i'm saying is he could be a very

2360
01:31:35,669 --> 01:31:33,520
intimidating presence if he

2361
01:31:37,910 --> 01:31:35,679
chose to use that

2362
01:31:38,790 --> 01:31:37,920
but he didn't and i gave him a lot of

2363
01:31:40,870 --> 01:31:38,800
credit

2364
01:31:44,070 --> 01:31:40,880
for listening to my suggestion in the

2365
01:31:46,550 --> 01:31:44,080
first place and for not intimidating us

2366
01:31:48,870 --> 01:31:46,560
it was a good discussion a good program

2367
01:31:50,149 --> 01:31:48,880
i really enjoyed doing it and

2368
01:31:52,310 --> 01:31:50,159
with merv

2369
01:31:54,629 --> 01:31:52,320
he was a pleasure he has such sensible

2370
01:31:56,070 --> 01:31:54,639
questions and i did a show twice

2371
01:31:57,510 --> 01:31:56,080
actually but

2372
01:31:58,870 --> 01:31:57,520
after the first show we had a live

2373
01:32:02,470 --> 01:31:58,880
audience

2374
01:32:05,510 --> 01:32:02,480
i asked him i said gee that that was fun

2375
01:32:07,830 --> 01:32:05,520
i really enjoyed that and because he was

2376
01:32:09,750 --> 01:32:07,840
sharp and he said to me

2377
01:32:12,070 --> 01:32:09,760
just the two of us standing there he

2378
01:32:14,550 --> 01:32:12,080
said i try to keep the show at a level

2379
01:32:16,950 --> 01:32:14,560
of after dinner conversation you're

2380
01:32:18,470 --> 01:32:16,960
having friends over for dinner

2381
01:32:19,510 --> 01:32:18,480
and what kind of questions would they

2382
01:32:22,070 --> 01:32:19,520
ask

2383
01:32:24,310 --> 01:32:22,080
and he did a great job of that emerv

2384
01:32:26,229 --> 01:32:24,320
isn't a scientist but boy he was a very

2385
01:32:28,709 --> 01:32:26,239
bright guy you know i i really

2386
01:32:30,709 --> 01:32:28,719
appreciated the fact that he had done

2387
01:32:33,110 --> 01:32:30,719
some work he asked sensible questions he

2388
01:32:36,149 --> 01:32:33,120
was cordial he represented the audience

2389
01:32:38,310 --> 01:32:36,159
in a very clever kind of way

2390
01:32:42,149 --> 01:32:38,320
so some of these guys really serve a

2391
01:32:44,629 --> 01:32:42,159
useful purpose not everybody but so i i

2392
01:32:47,750 --> 01:32:44,639
i've been to betty's house

2393
01:32:50,149 --> 01:32:47,760
had been several times uh

2394
01:32:53,830 --> 01:32:50,159
and that's how kathy got to know me and

2395
01:32:55,270 --> 01:32:53,840
uh she once told me that idiot said if

2396
01:32:57,669 --> 01:32:55,280
you ever need any help there's one guy

2397
01:32:59,990 --> 01:32:57,679
you can trust that's stan freeman so we

2398
01:33:01,910 --> 01:33:00,000
did three books and uh they're all

2399
01:33:05,669 --> 01:33:01,920
listed at my website incidentally

2400
01:33:08,070 --> 01:33:06,550
and

2401
01:33:09,750 --> 01:33:08,080
the ones by the three of us are

2402
01:33:12,629 --> 01:33:09,760
autographed by both of us which is

2403
01:33:14,310 --> 01:33:12,639
bookplates so everything i send out gets

2404
01:33:16,709 --> 01:33:14,320
is autographed

2405
01:33:19,110 --> 01:33:16,719
look i know i put myself in the people's

2406
01:33:21,510 --> 01:33:19,120
place they're buying a book

2407
01:33:23,669 --> 01:33:21,520
and we have discount prices but still

2408
01:33:25,350 --> 01:33:23,679
why don't they deserve an autograph and

2409
01:33:27,590 --> 01:33:25,360
just so they know it's coming from me

2410
01:33:29,030 --> 01:33:27,600
and not from some bookstore i got

2411
01:33:29,290 --> 01:33:29,040
nothing against bookstores they sell

2412
01:33:31,830 --> 01:33:29,300
live

2413
01:33:33,110 --> 01:33:31,840
[Laughter]

2414
01:33:36,149 --> 01:33:33,120
well that's a good point though it's

2415
01:33:38,070 --> 01:33:36,159
that extra personal touch yeah and uh i

2416
01:33:41,430 --> 01:33:38,080
could say i'm on the internet uh

2417
01:33:46,470 --> 01:33:43,030
lettersville friedman right though

2418
01:33:51,590 --> 01:33:48,629
well stan one of the other ones cases i

2419
01:33:53,990 --> 01:33:51,600
wanted to get in with you um which you

2420
01:33:56,149 --> 01:33:54,000
you know more than anyone else on this

2421
01:33:57,030 --> 01:33:56,159
one what i always find fascinating is

2422
01:34:00,709 --> 01:33:57,040
how

2423
01:34:03,910 --> 01:34:00,719
basically helped break the story of

2424
01:34:05,830 --> 01:34:03,920
roswell when you met with jesse marcel i

2425
01:34:08,470 --> 01:34:05,840
would love if you could tell us that

2426
01:34:09,350 --> 01:34:08,480
that story um before we we move on here

2427
01:34:11,990 --> 01:34:09,360
okay

2428
01:34:14,229 --> 01:34:12,000
i was doing a television interview in

2429
01:34:16,390 --> 01:34:14,239
baton rouge louisiana before speaking at

2430
01:34:17,830 --> 01:34:16,400
louisiana state university it was at the

2431
01:34:20,629 --> 01:34:17,840
local television station i was supposed

2432
01:34:22,310 --> 01:34:20,639
to do three interviews and uh the guy

2433
01:34:24,149 --> 01:34:22,320
was very helpful and

2434
01:34:25,990 --> 01:34:24,159
nice and and he said you know the guy

2435
01:34:28,310 --> 01:34:26,000
you really got to talk to is jesse

2436
01:34:30,229 --> 01:34:28,320
marcel i said oh who's he i'd never

2437
01:34:32,229 --> 01:34:30,239
heard of him his next sentence changed

2438
01:34:33,910 --> 01:34:32,239
my life he handled wreckage of one of

2439
01:34:36,229 --> 01:34:33,920
those saucers you're interested in when

2440
01:34:37,910 --> 01:34:36,239
he was in the military what he wasn't

2441
01:34:39,750 --> 01:34:37,920
joking there was nobody around he wasn't

2442
01:34:42,390 --> 01:34:39,760
trying to impress anybody he was telling

2443
01:34:45,510 --> 01:34:42,400
me the facts well what do you know about

2444
01:34:47,109 --> 01:34:45,520
him he lives in houma h-o-u-m-a i didn't

2445
01:34:49,750 --> 01:34:47,119
know where homer was

2446
01:34:51,669 --> 01:34:49,760
in louisiana but uh he's a great guy he

2447
01:34:53,830 --> 01:34:51,679
ought to talk to him so the next day i

2448
01:34:55,109 --> 01:34:53,840
was at the airport early and i called

2449
01:34:56,790 --> 01:34:55,119
information

2450
01:34:58,149 --> 01:34:56,800
some listeners may not be aware that's

2451
01:34:59,510 --> 01:34:58,159
what you used to do when you wanted a

2452
01:35:00,870 --> 01:34:59,520
phone number and you didn't go to a

2453
01:35:03,510 --> 01:35:00,880
computer because you didn't have one to

2454
01:35:07,990 --> 01:35:05,510
call the operator in houma and there was

2455
01:35:09,030 --> 01:35:08,000
a listing for jesse a marcel and i

2456
01:35:10,870 --> 01:35:09,040
called him

2457
01:35:12,870 --> 01:35:10,880
told him i was a nuclear physicist and

2458
01:35:13,750 --> 01:35:12,880
had a clearance for 14 years and so

2459
01:35:15,270 --> 01:35:13,760
forth

2460
01:35:17,270 --> 01:35:15,280
trying to impress him that you know i've

2461
01:35:19,270 --> 01:35:17,280
been around a bit and so he told me a

2462
01:35:22,070 --> 01:35:19,280
story people say why did he talk to you

2463
01:35:23,750 --> 01:35:22,080
well i wasn't threatening to him i i

2464
01:35:26,229 --> 01:35:23,760
impressed him with being nuclear

2465
01:35:28,149 --> 01:35:26,239
remember he was the intelligence officer

2466
01:35:30,229 --> 01:35:28,159
of the only atomic bombing group in the

2467
01:35:31,990 --> 01:35:30,239
entire world

2468
01:35:33,590 --> 01:35:32,000
which was based at roswell the noisy

2469
01:35:35,910 --> 01:35:33,600
negative is forget to tell you that

2470
01:35:37,189 --> 01:35:35,920
usually yeah just a bunch of

2471
01:35:38,629 --> 01:35:37,199
gi's but

2472
01:35:40,550 --> 01:35:38,639
yeah they happen to be the guys who

2473
01:35:42,550 --> 01:35:40,560
dropped the bonds on the

2474
01:35:45,510 --> 01:35:42,560
alamogordo they sent off the bomb and

2475
01:35:47,430 --> 01:35:45,520
then the uh hiroshima and nagasaki and

2476
01:35:49,910 --> 01:35:47,440
two more in operation crossroads and so

2477
01:35:52,149 --> 01:35:49,920
forth i was the only group in the world

2478
01:35:53,270 --> 01:35:52,159
like that at that time

2479
01:35:55,830 --> 01:35:53,280
and so

2480
01:35:58,070 --> 01:35:55,840
i was very impressed with jesse this is

2481
01:36:00,390 --> 01:35:58,080
a phone conversation i got other names

2482
01:36:02,950 --> 01:36:00,400
of people i can talk to

2483
01:36:04,790 --> 01:36:02,960
in the next uh i shared that with bill

2484
01:36:06,870 --> 01:36:04,800
moore and in the next year or so we

2485
01:36:09,669 --> 01:36:06,880
talked to 60 people connected with the

2486
01:36:10,629 --> 01:36:09,679
event and yeah i got lucky when i called

2487
01:36:13,030 --> 01:36:10,639
the uh

2488
01:36:14,550 --> 01:36:13,040
i had a look in the editor and publisher

2489
01:36:17,030 --> 01:36:14,560
is there a newspaper and rush well what

2490
01:36:19,590 --> 01:36:17,040
do i know about a restaurant

2491
01:36:21,910 --> 01:36:19,600
i'll be there in july but

2492
01:36:23,590 --> 01:36:21,920
uh yeah the roswell daily record so i

2493
01:36:26,470 --> 01:36:23,600
called the record

2494
01:36:27,830 --> 01:36:26,480
to find out something about the town

2495
01:36:30,550 --> 01:36:27,840
and

2496
01:36:33,030 --> 01:36:30,560
the fact that it was the 509th that was

2497
01:36:35,669 --> 01:36:33,040
there the the only atomic bombing group

2498
01:36:39,030 --> 01:36:35,679
in the world and uh asked

2499
01:36:41,990 --> 01:36:39,040
i was i called the newspaper and i had i

2500
01:36:44,390 --> 01:36:42,000
found an article uh we found a date we

2501
01:36:46,149 --> 01:36:44,400
found some articles in newspapers so i

2502
01:36:48,709 --> 01:36:46,159
called the newspaper and i said i've got

2503
01:36:51,590 --> 01:36:48,719
an article here that says a guy named

2504
01:36:53,590 --> 01:36:51,600
walter out or hot

2505
01:36:55,189 --> 01:36:53,600
was the public information officer for

2506
01:36:57,240 --> 01:36:55,199
the base and before i could finish the

2507
01:37:00,790 --> 01:36:57,250
sentence oh his wife works here

2508
01:37:03,109 --> 01:37:00,800
[Laughter]

2509
01:37:03,910 --> 01:37:03,119
so i talked to his wife

2510
01:37:08,390 --> 01:37:03,920
and

2511
01:37:10,629 --> 01:37:08,400
a huge help because not only was he a

2512
01:37:12,870 --> 01:37:10,639
public information officer which he was

2513
01:37:15,510 --> 01:37:12,880
for the base but he was a world war ii

2514
01:37:19,109 --> 01:37:15,520
bombardier more than 20 missions over

2515
01:37:20,950 --> 01:37:19,119
japan this wasn't a dink again and

2516
01:37:22,629 --> 01:37:20,960
remember he

2517
01:37:24,310 --> 01:37:22,639
he actually dropped the instrument

2518
01:37:26,070 --> 01:37:24,320
package over one of those atom bomb

2519
01:37:28,229 --> 01:37:26,080
tests yeah

2520
01:37:29,590 --> 01:37:28,239
and he used your best guys to do that

2521
01:37:31,590 --> 01:37:29,600
because if you don't get it in the right

2522
01:37:33,030 --> 01:37:31,600
place at the right time you've wasted a

2523
01:37:36,070 --> 01:37:33,040
bomb and at that time we didn't have

2524
01:37:38,950 --> 01:37:36,080
bombs to waste so walter was more than a

2525
01:37:40,950 --> 01:37:38,960
public information officer and he knew

2526
01:37:43,030 --> 01:37:40,960
many of the people helped me find other

2527
01:37:45,270 --> 01:37:43,040
people and the big thing is he had a

2528
01:37:47,750 --> 01:37:45,280
base yearbook which he made a copy of

2529
01:37:49,669 --> 01:37:47,760
for me and i'd call them and say hey you

2530
01:37:51,830 --> 01:37:49,679
know where any of these guys are well i

2531
01:37:53,510 --> 01:37:51,840
remember joe and

2532
01:37:56,390 --> 01:37:53,520
last i heard he was in

2533
01:37:58,390 --> 01:37:56,400
oshkosh or you know it was a big

2534
01:38:00,070 --> 01:37:58,400
help but one thing i learned and this is

2535
01:38:01,830 --> 01:38:00,080
a lesson for investigators which i

2536
01:38:03,990 --> 01:38:01,840
didn't know when i started you talk to

2537
01:38:05,590 --> 01:38:04,000
somebody yeah i was there at the base at

2538
01:38:07,270 --> 01:38:05,600
that time they'll remember colonel

2539
01:38:08,550 --> 01:38:07,280
blanchard and many of them remember

2540
01:38:10,709 --> 01:38:08,560
jesse marcel because he was the

2541
01:38:12,790 --> 01:38:10,719
intelligence officer you remember

2542
01:38:15,590 --> 01:38:12,800
anybody else who was there

2543
01:38:19,109 --> 01:38:15,600
oh come on now it was 40 years ago you

2544
01:38:21,669 --> 01:38:19,119
know uh no i don't and then you talk we

2545
01:38:23,990 --> 01:38:21,679
keep them in that time frame for another

2546
01:38:26,310 --> 01:38:24,000
five minutes and then something hey did

2547
01:38:28,070 --> 01:38:26,320
you talk to joe smith he was there i

2548
01:38:29,830 --> 01:38:28,080
remember him and then

2549
01:38:31,350 --> 01:38:29,840
come up with three or four names he

2550
01:38:33,189 --> 01:38:31,360
wasn't lying to me when he said he

2551
01:38:34,550 --> 01:38:33,199
didn't remember and he didn't he had to

2552
01:38:37,109 --> 01:38:34,560
think about it you know how many of us

2553
01:38:39,350 --> 01:38:37,119
can you know rattle off i can tell you

2554
01:38:42,950 --> 01:38:39,360
who i went to high school with but not

2555
01:38:45,189 --> 01:38:42,960
the other people so it became an immense

2556
01:38:46,870 --> 01:38:45,199
amount of labor and i certainly was

2557
01:38:48,070 --> 01:38:46,880
convinced that we're dealing with a true

2558
01:38:49,510 --> 01:38:48,080
story

2559
01:38:51,590 --> 01:38:49,520
and there have been people who make up

2560
01:38:53,669 --> 01:38:51,600
all kinds of phony baloney stories jesse

2561
01:38:55,109 --> 01:38:53,679
was very impressive

2562
01:38:57,189 --> 01:38:55,119
look you don't get to be the

2563
01:38:59,590 --> 01:38:57,199
intelligence officer for the only atomic

2564
01:39:00,870 --> 01:38:59,600
bombing group in the entire world by

2565
01:39:03,510 --> 01:39:00,880
being an idiot

2566
01:39:05,109 --> 01:39:03,520
it's just and of course his son who was

2567
01:39:07,430 --> 01:39:05,119
deceased also

2568
01:39:09,910 --> 01:39:07,440
was a medical doctor and served in

2569
01:39:12,310 --> 01:39:09,920
intelligence work and i still can't

2570
01:39:16,310 --> 01:39:12,320
believe jesse jr was called back in at

2571
01:39:19,990 --> 01:39:16,320
age 68 in the uh reserves he had been in

2572
01:39:21,189 --> 01:39:20,000
his flying combat missions in iraq in

2573
01:39:22,070 --> 01:39:21,199
the middle east

2574
01:39:23,430 --> 01:39:22,080
yeah

2575
01:39:27,350 --> 01:39:23,440
after each

2576
01:39:29,510 --> 01:39:27,360
68 130 flying hours over there we were

2577
01:39:31,109 --> 01:39:29,520
that desperate

2578
01:39:34,070 --> 01:39:31,119
i think they were trying to get them

2579
01:39:36,149 --> 01:39:34,080
shut down so they'd shut up yeah

2580
01:39:38,310 --> 01:39:36,159
would it wouldn't be the most crazy way

2581
01:39:39,350 --> 01:39:38,320
they've uh tried to have a cover-up for

2582
01:39:42,149 --> 01:39:39,360
sure

2583
01:39:43,030 --> 01:39:42,159
that's right so yeah roswell has been

2584
01:39:45,270 --> 01:39:43,040
mine

2585
01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:45,280
and i'm a member i was elected

2586
01:39:50,470 --> 01:39:48,400
into the roswell ufo hall of fame you'll

2587
01:39:52,830 --> 01:39:50,480
see at the museum and for people who

2588
01:39:55,669 --> 01:39:52,840
wonder just to prove that there's

2589
01:39:57,510 --> 01:39:55,679
interest last year the international ufo

2590
01:39:59,030 --> 01:39:57,520
museum and research center in roswell

2591
01:40:04,310 --> 01:39:59,040
new mexico

2592
01:40:05,990 --> 01:40:04,320
had over 205 thousand visitors

2593
01:40:08,470 --> 01:40:06,000
and it's in the middle of nowhere

2594
01:40:11,030 --> 01:40:08,480
believe me oh yeah i've been there and

2595
01:40:14,470 --> 01:40:11,040
my god that was uh one of the lengthiest

2596
01:40:16,229 --> 01:40:14,480
drives to a desert i've ever experienced

2597
01:40:18,229 --> 01:40:16,239
yeah i believe

2598
01:40:21,350 --> 01:40:18,239
look it's 200 miles from albuquerque

2599
01:40:23,990 --> 01:40:21,360
yeah it's 200 miles from amarillo it's

2600
01:40:25,590 --> 01:40:24,000
200 miles from el paso look i grew up in

2601
01:40:29,030 --> 01:40:25,600
new jersey there wasn't anything in new

2602
01:40:33,109 --> 01:40:31,669
that's a good point yeah well it makes

2603
01:40:35,910 --> 01:40:33,119
for a perfect place for something to

2604
01:40:38,310 --> 01:40:35,920
crash or be tested that's for damn sure

2605
01:40:40,950 --> 01:40:38,320
well i'll tell you people say well why

2606
01:40:43,030 --> 01:40:40,960
and i had an astronomer in england uh

2607
01:40:45,590 --> 01:40:43,040
say to me why would an alien go to

2608
01:40:47,510 --> 01:40:45,600
roswell to new mexico all there is there

2609
01:40:49,990 --> 01:40:47,520
is sand i said you ever been there well

2610
01:40:51,910 --> 01:40:50,000
no i said well i have i take it you're

2611
01:40:55,350 --> 01:40:51,920
not aware that two of our three nuclear

2612
01:40:56,790 --> 01:40:55,360
weapons labs are in new mexico and that

2613
01:40:59,669 --> 01:40:56,800
white sands missile ranges where we're

2614
01:41:02,229 --> 01:40:59,679
firing all our missiles

2615
01:41:04,629 --> 01:41:02,239
and they're both there because there

2616
01:41:06,390 --> 01:41:04,639
aren't many people there you don't fire

2617
01:41:07,590 --> 01:41:06,400
missiles with a lot of people around for

2618
01:41:09,669 --> 01:41:07,600
goodness sake

2619
01:41:12,950 --> 01:41:09,679
make a mistake

2620
01:41:15,830 --> 01:41:12,960
the uh kirtland air force base is there

2621
01:41:18,310 --> 01:41:15,840
it's a natural place to put military

2622
01:41:20,149 --> 01:41:18,320
installations alamogordo army airfield

2623
01:41:22,149 --> 01:41:20,159
and stuff like that

2624
01:41:24,629 --> 01:41:22,159
so roswell

2625
01:41:25,830 --> 01:41:24,639
was there for that reason

2626
01:41:27,510 --> 01:41:25,840
and you know

2627
01:41:30,390 --> 01:41:27,520
crazy politics

2628
01:41:32,950 --> 01:41:30,400
the base was shut down by lyndon johnson

2629
01:41:34,870 --> 01:41:32,960
because new mexico didn't vote for him

2630
01:41:37,830 --> 01:41:34,880
in the election when he won the

2631
01:41:40,310 --> 01:41:37,840
president oh wow that's a vendetta

2632
01:41:41,910 --> 01:41:40,320
well london was known to have strong

2633
01:41:43,990 --> 01:41:41,920
feelings like that

2634
01:41:46,149 --> 01:41:44,000
yeah

2635
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:46,159
that's very true you know how fair was

2636
01:41:50,550 --> 01:41:48,320
it to the town many of the people worked

2637
01:41:53,590 --> 01:41:50,560
at the base is a big place yeah

2638
01:41:55,510 --> 01:41:53,600
they had a 13 000 foot runway

2639
01:41:56,870 --> 01:41:55,520
and typically runways are eight or nine

2640
01:41:59,590 --> 01:41:56,880
thousand feet

2641
01:42:01,910 --> 01:41:59,600
and that was because they had big b-36

2642
01:42:04,229 --> 01:42:01,920
bombers carrying nuclear weapons and

2643
01:42:06,310 --> 01:42:04,239
they needed the six feet of concrete for

2644
01:42:08,390 --> 01:42:06,320
runaway how's that if you go out there

2645
01:42:10,070 --> 01:42:08,400
now you go out to where the base was

2646
01:42:11,430 --> 01:42:10,080
which is south of town

2647
01:42:14,070 --> 01:42:11,440
and you'll see

2648
01:42:15,430 --> 01:42:14,080
airplanes being cut up it's a burial

2649
01:42:16,870 --> 01:42:15,440
ground if you will except they don't

2650
01:42:19,189 --> 01:42:16,880
bury them they cut them up and sell

2651
01:42:21,189 --> 01:42:19,199
apart okay and

2652
01:42:23,830 --> 01:42:21,199
i don't know of any other place where he

2653
01:42:25,990 --> 01:42:23,840
can do this yeah really

2654
01:42:28,390 --> 01:42:26,000
for all kinds of airplanes

2655
01:42:31,669 --> 01:42:28,400
big ones small ones et cetera et cetera

2656
01:42:34,390 --> 01:42:31,679
so uh it it's been a fascinating story

2657
01:42:36,229 --> 01:42:34,400
for me and i will be there again

2658
01:42:38,550 --> 01:42:36,239
probably the last time on the

2659
01:42:41,750 --> 01:42:38,560
anniversary they have a festival that's

2660
01:42:44,070 --> 01:42:41,760
the word that sounds strange but

2661
01:42:46,629 --> 01:42:44,080
july around the time of the crash

2662
01:42:49,350 --> 01:42:46,639
anniversary right and uh i think last

2663
01:42:51,270 --> 01:42:49,360
year i don't know 9 000 people there for

2664
01:42:53,030 --> 01:42:51,280
the weekend something like that that's

2665
01:42:55,030 --> 01:42:53,040
incredible and people don't realize like

2666
01:42:57,910 --> 01:42:55,040
how much revenue that brings into that

2667
01:42:59,189 --> 01:42:57,920
small town every year they earned it you

2668
01:43:01,590 --> 01:42:59,199
know

2669
01:43:03,189 --> 01:43:01,600
canceled the base which

2670
01:43:05,270 --> 01:43:03,199
the german air force used to fly out of

2671
01:43:08,229 --> 01:43:05,280
there it's a great place for flying it's

2672
01:43:11,270 --> 01:43:08,239
at 3 500 feet feet

2673
01:43:13,430 --> 01:43:11,280
no mountains close by you know

2674
01:43:16,070 --> 01:43:13,440
why would you close the facility because

2675
01:43:17,830 --> 01:43:16,080
they didn't vote for him of course right

2676
01:43:20,149 --> 01:43:17,840
and where did they move it

2677
01:43:22,470 --> 01:43:20,159
to texas

2678
01:43:24,790 --> 01:43:22,480
that sounds appropriate yeah instead

2679
01:43:26,870 --> 01:43:24,800
well the uh the other thing that kind of

2680
01:43:28,790 --> 01:43:26,880
connects here to roswell not kind of the

2681
01:43:31,189 --> 01:43:28,800
thing this is a big part of the roswell

2682
01:43:33,669 --> 01:43:31,199
case as well is another thing that you

2683
01:43:34,790 --> 01:43:33,679
you worked with and investigated and i'd

2684
01:43:36,870 --> 01:43:34,800
really love to hear your thoughts on

2685
01:43:39,510 --> 01:43:36,880
where you stand on this now it's the mj

2686
01:43:42,070 --> 01:43:39,520
12 documents now we've had so many

2687
01:43:43,590 --> 01:43:42,080
people argue this for so many years but

2688
01:43:45,830 --> 01:43:43,600
you wrote one of the most definitive

2689
01:43:49,350 --> 01:43:45,840
books on these documents so i'd love to

2690
01:43:51,270 --> 01:43:49,360
hear you know now in 2018 what is your

2691
01:43:53,590 --> 01:43:51,280
stance on these documents how much is

2692
01:43:55,270 --> 01:43:53,600
real how much is baloney where do you

2693
01:43:57,830 --> 01:43:55,280
stand on that

2694
01:43:59,830 --> 01:43:57,840
most of the mj-12 documents are phony

2695
01:44:01,910 --> 01:43:59,840
okay that's true most isotopes aren't

2696
01:44:03,830 --> 01:44:01,920
fashionable either you know like it or

2697
01:44:04,790 --> 01:44:03,840
not most people can't run a mile in four

2698
01:44:07,669 --> 01:44:04,800
minutes

2699
01:44:11,189 --> 01:44:07,679
nobody can so there are at least three

2700
01:44:13,590 --> 01:44:11,199
documents that i believe are genuine the

2701
01:44:15,830 --> 01:44:13,600
eisenhower briefing document

2702
01:44:18,070 --> 01:44:15,840
the cutler twining memo

2703
01:44:21,990 --> 01:44:18,080
and there's another one which doesn't

2704
01:44:23,669 --> 01:44:22,000
come to mind at the moment and as proof

2705
01:44:26,709 --> 01:44:23,679
uh tells you something about research in

2706
01:44:29,590 --> 01:44:26,719
the field phillip class who was mr noisy

2707
01:44:31,830 --> 01:44:29,600
negativist himself an ap onyx editor for

2708
01:44:34,390 --> 01:44:31,840
aviation week in space technology no

2709
01:44:36,550 --> 01:44:34,400
flying saucers are in spacecraft nah

2710
01:44:39,189 --> 01:44:36,560
it's nonsense and he challenged me on

2711
01:44:41,669 --> 01:44:39,199
those documents the color tiny memo in

2712
01:44:43,830 --> 01:44:41,679
particular obviously the memos are fraud

2713
01:44:46,070 --> 01:44:43,840
because it's done in the large pica type

2714
01:44:47,830 --> 01:44:46,080
but i've got nine documents here done

2715
01:44:50,310 --> 01:44:47,840
from the national security council which

2716
01:44:52,790 --> 01:44:50,320
name is at the top and they're all done

2717
01:44:55,430 --> 01:44:52,800
in a leap type so i challenge you to

2718
01:44:57,669 --> 01:44:55,440
find any other genuine documents under

2719
01:44:59,189 --> 01:44:57,679
the same size and style type and i'll

2720
01:45:01,350 --> 01:44:59,199
give you a hundred dollars each up to a

2721
01:45:04,070 --> 01:45:01,360
maximum of 10.

2722
01:45:07,430 --> 01:45:04,080
he did this rather publicly and you have

2723
01:45:09,109 --> 01:45:07,440
60 days well okay i immediately went to

2724
01:45:11,109 --> 01:45:09,119
my files and

2725
01:45:12,550 --> 01:45:11,119
unlike i turned out i didn't know this

2726
01:45:14,629 --> 01:45:12,560
at the time it turned out and phil had

2727
01:45:16,550 --> 01:45:14,639
never been to the eisenhower library or

2728
01:45:18,390 --> 01:45:16,560
the truman library and i spent weeks

2729
01:45:21,350 --> 01:45:18,400
with them and i immediately went to my

2730
01:45:23,750 --> 01:45:21,360
files and i had the 20 pages done in the

2731
01:45:25,990 --> 01:45:23,760
same size and style type they didn't

2732
01:45:28,070 --> 01:45:26,000
meet all this criteria but

2733
01:45:30,870 --> 01:45:28,080
time frame etc but

2734
01:45:33,270 --> 01:45:30,880
so i was going to the eisenhower library

2735
01:45:34,709 --> 01:45:33,280
and uh might as well check this when i

2736
01:45:36,310 --> 01:45:34,719
went there it's easy to spot the

2737
01:45:37,910 --> 01:45:36,320
difference because one type is much

2738
01:45:40,709 --> 01:45:37,920
bigger than the other one typeface and

2739
01:45:42,470 --> 01:45:40,719
so i made copies of 14 documents no

2740
01:45:44,390 --> 01:45:42,480
doubt about their being genuine i found

2741
01:45:47,189 --> 01:45:44,400
them at the eisenhower library

2742
01:45:50,629 --> 01:45:47,199
and uh made copies of all of them sent

2743
01:45:53,189 --> 01:45:50,639
him the copies and ending an invoice for

2744
01:45:56,229 --> 01:45:53,199
a thousand dollars and he would only pay

2745
01:45:58,629 --> 01:45:56,239
me for 10 say and he paid me and then he

2746
01:46:02,950 --> 01:45:58,639
got mattered in hell when i included a

2747
01:46:07,590 --> 01:46:04,709
the audience loves it

2748
01:46:09,350 --> 01:46:07,600
yeah yeah but you know it's typical of

2749
01:46:10,830 --> 01:46:09,360
the intellectual bankruptcy of the

2750
01:46:13,109 --> 01:46:10,840
pseudoscience of

2751
01:46:15,510 --> 01:46:13,119
anti-ufology don't bother me with the

2752
01:46:18,070 --> 01:46:15,520
facts my mind's made up and

2753
01:46:20,229 --> 01:46:18,080
it's such a splendid example that he had

2754
01:46:23,030 --> 01:46:20,239
never been to the library

2755
01:46:25,350 --> 01:46:23,040
and it turns out they have like 250 000

2756
01:46:26,709 --> 01:46:25,360
pages of nsc documents and you're

2757
01:46:29,109 --> 01:46:26,719
telling me they're all typed on the same

2758
01:46:30,870 --> 01:46:29,119
typewriter

2759
01:46:35,270 --> 01:46:30,880
i hope people recall we used to use

2760
01:46:39,590 --> 01:46:37,510
well the mj12 documents in other words

2761
01:46:40,390 --> 01:46:39,600
i'm convinced i did rather extensive

2762
01:46:42,950 --> 01:46:40,400
work

2763
01:46:45,750 --> 01:46:42,960
on the 12 members of the group

2764
01:46:48,550 --> 01:46:45,760
and i'm especially proud of my discovery

2765
01:46:51,030 --> 01:46:48,560
to my total surprise i will admit that

2766
01:46:53,510 --> 01:46:51,040
one of the members was dr donald howard

2767
01:46:55,750 --> 01:46:53,520
menzel and he was a debunker he written

2768
01:46:57,430 --> 01:46:55,760
three anti-ufo books how could he be

2769
01:46:59,430 --> 01:46:57,440
member of a group that knew about crash

2770
01:47:01,750 --> 01:46:59,440
saucers alien potties all that sort of

2771
01:47:04,790 --> 01:47:01,760
stuff well i saw a mention of his name

2772
01:47:06,790 --> 01:47:04,800
in a knock document in the bendevar bush

2773
01:47:09,109 --> 01:47:06,800
files he was the chief science advisor

2774
01:47:11,830 --> 01:47:09,119
in the united states in this time frame

2775
01:47:13,830 --> 01:47:11,840
outstanding individual and so i followed

2776
01:47:15,109 --> 01:47:13,840
up on that and had to get permission

2777
01:47:16,950 --> 01:47:15,119
from three different people to look at

2778
01:47:20,390 --> 01:47:16,960
his papers at harvard the center for

2779
01:47:22,390 --> 01:47:20,400
ufos said no the ufo whatever the name

2780
01:47:25,189 --> 01:47:22,400
of the group was at that time

2781
01:47:27,030 --> 01:47:25,199
i i got a research grant and i went to

2782
01:47:28,550 --> 01:47:27,040
the harvard archives after getting

2783
01:47:31,030 --> 01:47:28,560
permission freedom from people to see

2784
01:47:32,790 --> 01:47:31,040
his papers written permission pain in

2785
01:47:34,870 --> 01:47:32,800
the neck but anyway

2786
01:47:36,709 --> 01:47:34,880
i didn't know what i was looking for

2787
01:47:37,430 --> 01:47:36,719
let's see what we find in that there was

2788
01:47:56,950 --> 01:47:37,440
a

2789
01:48:00,070 --> 01:47:56,960
the first things i opened up in the jfk

2790
01:48:02,310 --> 01:48:00,080
files there's a letter from uh mental to

2791
01:48:04,070 --> 01:48:02,320
kennedy dear jack turns out they knew

2792
01:48:06,229 --> 01:48:04,080
each other quite well even had breakfast

2793
01:48:08,470 --> 01:48:06,239
together on occasion

2794
01:48:10,310 --> 01:48:08,480
living in the cambridge area

2795
01:48:12,629 --> 01:48:10,320
and there's one area this is after the

2796
01:48:14,070 --> 01:48:12,639
election of 1960 when kennedy was

2797
01:48:16,229 --> 01:48:14,080
elected president

2798
01:48:18,709 --> 01:48:16,239
there's one where i may be of assistance

2799
01:48:21,590 --> 01:48:18,719
to you it's with regard to the national

2800
01:48:24,070 --> 01:48:21,600
security agency i've had a longer

2801
01:48:26,950 --> 01:48:24,080
continuous association with them 30

2802
01:48:28,709 --> 01:48:26,960
years of anybody when we are properly

2803
01:48:30,790 --> 01:48:28,719
cleared to each other this is telling

2804
01:48:32,310 --> 01:48:30,800
the president we are properly clear to

2805
01:48:33,830 --> 01:48:32,320
each other i can tell you more about

2806
01:48:35,590 --> 01:48:33,840
this

2807
01:48:37,990 --> 01:48:35,600
so i did a lot it turns out he was a

2808
01:48:41,189 --> 01:48:38,000
world-class cryptologist nobody knew

2809
01:48:43,590 --> 01:48:41,199
that he did all kinds of classified work

2810
01:48:45,430 --> 01:48:43,600
and i was the first to take note of that

2811
01:48:47,430 --> 01:48:45,440
and so suddenly it made sense that he

2812
01:48:48,870 --> 01:48:47,440
was part of this group but it was such a

2813
01:48:50,390 --> 01:48:48,880
shock and there were people oh he

2814
01:48:52,470 --> 01:48:50,400
couldn't lead a double life i wrote a

2815
01:48:54,870 --> 01:48:52,480
paper the double life of donald men's

2816
01:48:57,270 --> 01:48:54,880
loads of people who led double life uh

2817
01:48:59,189 --> 01:48:57,280
think of burgess philby and mclean

2818
01:49:00,470 --> 01:48:59,199
russian spies who work for british

2819
01:49:03,830 --> 01:49:00,480
intelligence

2820
01:49:05,510 --> 01:49:03,840
for like 15 years you know yeah

2821
01:49:07,830 --> 01:49:05,520
and you've got to be

2822
01:49:09,189 --> 01:49:07,840
very careful when you're a spy

2823
01:49:11,109 --> 01:49:09,199
that you don't

2824
01:49:12,950 --> 01:49:11,119
reveal you know

2825
01:49:15,109 --> 01:49:12,960
you're having access to information you

2826
01:49:17,589 --> 01:49:15,119
shouldn't have accessed but

2827
01:49:19,910 --> 01:49:17,599
once i found menzel and then saw the

2828
01:49:22,310 --> 01:49:19,920
connection with the other people i was

2829
01:49:24,470 --> 01:49:22,320
able to show that it made absolute sense

2830
01:49:26,550 --> 01:49:24,480
and with those three documents and class

2831
01:49:28,950 --> 01:49:26,560
paying me a thousand dollars that didn't

2832
01:49:31,589 --> 01:49:28,960
hurt any in terms of the overall picture

2833
01:49:32,870 --> 01:49:31,599
and so i think i've dealt with all the

2834
01:49:34,550 --> 01:49:32,880
arguments

2835
01:49:37,189 --> 01:49:34,560
with the people say the documents are

2836
01:49:39,270 --> 01:49:37,199
fraudulent yes i would show that a

2837
01:49:40,229 --> 01:49:39,280
number of documents are fraudulent so

2838
01:49:42,950 --> 01:49:40,239
what

2839
01:49:44,790 --> 01:49:42,960
i'm not denying that it'd be natural if

2840
01:49:47,270 --> 01:49:44,800
some good stuff gets out you flood the

2841
01:49:49,990 --> 01:49:47,280
market with crap and i hope it rubs off

2842
01:49:52,070 --> 01:49:50,000
yeah well and we all we all know like

2843
01:49:54,629 --> 01:49:52,080
these sort of campaigns have been used

2844
01:49:56,709 --> 01:49:54,639
for years in terms of disinformation of

2845
01:49:58,310 --> 01:49:56,719
putting some truths amongst the lies and

2846
01:50:00,390 --> 01:49:58,320
that's the only way they can sort of get

2847
01:50:02,229 --> 01:50:00,400
it out it's extremely frustrating to

2848
01:50:04,709 --> 01:50:02,239
have to wade through that but there are

2849
01:50:06,870 --> 01:50:04,719
people who will do that due diligence to

2850
01:50:09,030 --> 01:50:06,880
do that people like yourself many other

2851
01:50:11,430 --> 01:50:09,040
researchers who aren't out there you

2852
01:50:13,750 --> 01:50:11,440
know speaking or um you know on

2853
01:50:16,149 --> 01:50:13,760
television they're doing the hard work

2854
01:50:19,430 --> 01:50:16,159
underground and finding the truth to

2855
01:50:21,990 --> 01:50:19,440
those things well i have to have

2856
01:50:23,350 --> 01:50:22,000
evidence in hand before putting my mouth

2857
01:50:25,669 --> 01:50:23,360
in gears

2858
01:50:29,350 --> 01:50:25,679
as a scientist i have that requirement

2859
01:50:31,270 --> 01:50:29,360
on me show it i'll just tell it and so

2860
01:50:33,350 --> 01:50:31,280
and i frankly i've been disappointed

2861
01:50:35,669 --> 01:50:33,360
that so few people have visited all the

2862
01:50:37,510 --> 01:50:35,679
archives i've been to 20 archives yeah

2863
01:50:39,990 --> 01:50:37,520
some of them many times

2864
01:50:41,350 --> 01:50:40,000
and it's the documents that make the

2865
01:50:43,990 --> 01:50:41,360
difference

2866
01:50:45,750 --> 01:50:44,000
absolutely absolutely well i mean now

2867
01:50:46,709 --> 01:50:45,760
you mentioned this a little bit earlier

2868
01:50:49,270 --> 01:50:46,719
um

2869
01:50:52,470 --> 01:50:49,280
you you made an announcement about what

2870
01:50:55,510 --> 01:50:52,480
maybe a month ago now of your retirement

2871
01:50:57,510 --> 01:50:55,520
from the field and i mean people were

2872
01:51:00,070 --> 01:50:57,520
you know mixed reactions all around but

2873
01:51:02,709 --> 01:51:00,080
everyone was like oh my god it's it's

2874
01:51:04,390 --> 01:51:02,719
finally happening are you kidding me

2875
01:51:06,550 --> 01:51:04,400
like no

2876
01:51:09,350 --> 01:51:06,560
that's

2877
01:51:12,149 --> 01:51:09,360
yeah i know really it's funny how that

2878
01:51:14,629 --> 01:51:12,159
story came out uh i had been interviewed

2879
01:51:16,149 --> 01:51:14,639
by uh i know the reporters at the local

2880
01:51:18,950 --> 01:51:16,159
paper here the frederick and daley

2881
01:51:21,430 --> 01:51:18,960
gleaner and i'd called him one and i was

2882
01:51:22,709 --> 01:51:21,440
wanted to promote the fact that i was

2883
01:51:24,550 --> 01:51:22,719
and he thought it was an interesting

2884
01:51:26,870 --> 01:51:24,560
story that i was going to undertake the

2885
01:51:29,510 --> 01:51:26,880
debate of the century with dr michael

2886
01:51:31,910 --> 01:51:29,520
schermer of the skeptics society

2887
01:51:34,310 --> 01:51:31,920
we're supposed to have a big on stage

2888
01:51:36,950 --> 01:51:34,320
live debate in vancouver british

2889
01:51:38,950 --> 01:51:36,960
columbia on april the 8th in an

2890
01:51:40,709 --> 01:51:38,960
auditorium seating maybe a thousand

2891
01:51:42,629 --> 01:51:40,719
people for which they were charging a

2892
01:51:45,350 --> 01:51:42,639
good friday and they were giving us good

2893
01:51:47,830 --> 01:51:45,360
good feasts for the the two of us and so

2894
01:51:50,550 --> 01:51:47,840
i talked to was reported that i've known

2895
01:51:53,750 --> 01:51:50,560
he's done other articles upon me and uh

2896
01:51:56,070 --> 01:51:53,760
he wrote a nice article and then i got

2897
01:51:57,350 --> 01:51:56,080
told the debate had been cancelled no

2898
01:51:58,709 --> 01:51:57,360
good reason

2899
01:52:01,669 --> 01:51:58,719
there wasn't enough interest or

2900
01:52:04,310 --> 01:52:01,679
something like that and so i contacted

2901
01:52:05,830 --> 01:52:04,320
the reporter and so he said well is

2902
01:52:07,430 --> 01:52:05,840
there anything else any way i can

2903
01:52:09,270 --> 01:52:07,440
salvage this i

2904
01:52:11,030 --> 01:52:09,280
got anything else that's talking you're

2905
01:52:12,629 --> 01:52:11,040
talking about or you know any events

2906
01:52:15,350 --> 01:52:12,639
going on what can we

2907
01:52:17,589 --> 01:52:15,360
do i said well yeah i'm seriously

2908
01:52:19,830 --> 01:52:17,599
thinking of retiring it before the end

2909
01:52:21,589 --> 01:52:19,840
of the year oh well okay so we talked

2910
01:52:23,830 --> 01:52:21,599
about that for a while and so that

2911
01:52:24,950 --> 01:52:23,840
became the focus for the article only

2912
01:52:28,310 --> 01:52:24,960
because

2913
01:52:33,030 --> 01:52:30,870
we needed some other uh some other

2914
01:52:35,189 --> 01:52:33,040
shocker in there i guess right yeah a

2915
01:52:38,550 --> 01:52:35,199
hook if you will and

2916
01:52:40,950 --> 01:52:38,560
look i'm gonna be 84 in july

2917
01:52:44,629 --> 01:52:40,960
now i'm still young for my age it says

2918
01:52:48,550 --> 01:52:46,550
but it's time

2919
01:52:51,830 --> 01:52:48,560
like i said i read that first book 60

2920
01:52:53,270 --> 01:52:51,840
years ago yeah that's a long time and

2921
01:52:54,390 --> 01:52:53,280
you know it's getting harder to get

2922
01:52:56,470 --> 01:52:54,400
around

2923
01:52:59,430 --> 01:52:56,480
and my mind isn't as sharp as it used to

2924
01:53:01,510 --> 01:52:59,440
be don't tell me about that

2925
01:53:04,390 --> 01:53:01,520
it's true though i mean you sound as

2926
01:53:06,629 --> 01:53:04,400
sharp as a tech but i i understand that

2927
01:53:09,430 --> 01:53:06,639
i understand you you in terms of

2928
01:53:11,350 --> 01:53:09,440
entitlement uh yeah i would say so at

2929
01:53:13,990 --> 01:53:11,360
this point i mean you broke some of the

2930
01:53:17,270 --> 01:53:14,000
biggest stories in ufology you've put in

2931
01:53:20,550 --> 01:53:17,280
the work and as a younger researcher i

2932
01:53:22,470 --> 01:53:20,560
mean it's paramount to to not

2933
01:53:26,070 --> 01:53:22,480
to to understand that there was an age

2934
01:53:28,470 --> 01:53:26,080
without the internet god forbid where we

2935
01:53:30,070 --> 01:53:28,480
can just google something now and it's

2936
01:53:32,550 --> 01:53:30,080
right there in front of us the fact that

2937
01:53:34,790 --> 01:53:32,560
you went to these archives you went out

2938
01:53:37,589 --> 01:53:34,800
and you spoke to individuals face to

2939
01:53:40,390 --> 01:53:37,599
face that's a rarity for the younger

2940
01:53:43,109 --> 01:53:40,400
generation these days so in terms of

2941
01:53:44,790 --> 01:53:43,119
earning that i i would say so i i guess

2942
01:53:46,629 --> 01:53:44,800
my real question would be stan you know

2943
01:53:48,950 --> 01:53:46,639
with this news of your retirement i'd

2944
01:53:51,510 --> 01:53:48,960
love to know what some of your most

2945
01:53:55,030 --> 01:53:51,520
favorite or most memorable moments were

2946
01:53:57,750 --> 01:53:55,040
throughout this entire god 50 50 plus

2947
01:54:00,070 --> 01:53:57,760
years of research i mean was it a

2948
01:54:02,229 --> 01:54:00,080
lecture you gave was it a debate was it

2949
01:54:05,030 --> 01:54:02,239
a witness you spoke to me i know i know

2950
01:54:07,270 --> 01:54:05,040
it's probably a very broad question

2951
01:54:10,070 --> 01:54:07,280
there's a mix of things when it comes to

2952
01:54:11,830 --> 01:54:10,080
lectures i'll never forget in hawaii

2953
01:54:14,390 --> 01:54:11,840
supposed to speak and

2954
01:54:16,310 --> 01:54:14,400
we lived in near san francisco and i

2955
01:54:19,430 --> 01:54:16,320
took my wife what the hell it's called a

2956
01:54:21,189 --> 01:54:19,440
lie and got five days and i only have to

2957
01:54:23,030 --> 01:54:21,199
be there for an afternoon lecture and

2958
01:54:24,870 --> 01:54:23,040
stuff and i called them when we got

2959
01:54:26,870 --> 01:54:24,880
there and said you know you need me to

2960
01:54:29,109 --> 01:54:26,880
do any radio or television programs you

2961
01:54:31,350 --> 01:54:29,119
know i'm available i'm here oh no just

2962
01:54:33,830 --> 01:54:31,360
show up it was an afternoon talk here we

2963
01:54:37,430 --> 01:54:33,840
are in a hall seating over 900 people

2964
01:54:39,830 --> 01:54:37,440
and there were 20 like 26 people at my

2965
01:54:45,510 --> 01:54:39,840
lecture

2966
01:54:47,669 --> 01:54:45,520
you know it's not their fault but that

2967
01:54:49,510 --> 01:54:47,679
was an embarrassing moment

2968
01:54:52,310 --> 01:54:49,520
on the other hand i had an audience of

2969
01:54:56,149 --> 01:54:52,320
more than 2 000 in turkey

2970
01:54:58,149 --> 01:54:56,159
wow uh had a great audience saudi arabia

2971
01:55:00,550 --> 01:54:58,159
was interesting

2972
01:55:02,870 --> 01:55:00,560
oh yeah what was that one something like

2973
01:55:04,709 --> 01:55:02,880
a world competitive in this forum or

2974
01:55:06,870 --> 01:55:04,719
something like that

2975
01:55:09,030 --> 01:55:06,880
and i'd never heard of the people who

2976
01:55:10,790 --> 01:55:09,040
called me and uh

2977
01:55:11,830 --> 01:55:10,800
i did some checking around is this thing

2978
01:55:14,550 --> 01:55:11,840
real

2979
01:55:16,550 --> 01:55:14,560
and then as time went on and people said

2980
01:55:19,109 --> 01:55:16,560
stan you're going to saudi arabia are

2981
01:55:21,189 --> 01:55:19,119
you crazy you've forgotten you're jewish

2982
01:55:22,950 --> 01:55:21,199
they won't even let you in so i called

2983
01:55:24,790 --> 01:55:22,960
the person that i was in contact with it

2984
01:55:26,229 --> 01:55:24,800
was a woman incidentally which tells you

2985
01:55:28,229 --> 01:55:26,239
something some people think women don't

2986
01:55:30,070 --> 01:55:28,239
get a chance to hold any positions

2987
01:55:31,750 --> 01:55:30,080
really do

2988
01:55:33,109 --> 01:55:31,760
and i explained to her i said look

2989
01:55:34,310 --> 01:55:33,119
people are saying

2990
01:55:36,870 --> 01:55:34,320
you're gonna get there and you're gonna

2991
01:55:39,189 --> 01:55:36,880
say you can't come in here and she said

2992
01:55:42,229 --> 01:55:39,199
look we've had many jewish speakers at

2993
01:55:44,390 --> 01:55:42,239
these things no problem at all and so i

2994
01:55:46,550 --> 01:55:44,400
went and there wasn't any problem at all

2995
01:55:48,870 --> 01:55:46,560
like i was at a meeting of my father's

2996
01:55:50,709 --> 01:55:48,880
cousin's club

2997
01:55:53,109 --> 01:55:50,719
people forget jews and arabs are both

2998
01:55:55,830 --> 01:55:53,119
semites so that was an interesting

2999
01:55:57,990 --> 01:55:55,840
experience i enjoyed that i

3000
01:55:59,510 --> 01:55:58,000
enjoyed the visits to places i never

3001
01:56:01,990 --> 01:55:59,520
would have gotten otherwise i've spoken

3002
01:56:05,669 --> 01:56:02,000
in hong kong i've spoken in

3003
01:56:07,270 --> 01:56:05,679
dairy in china in south korea uh in

3004
01:56:10,550 --> 01:56:07,280
australia

3005
01:56:14,229 --> 01:56:10,560
argentina places like that

3006
01:56:17,189 --> 01:56:14,239
gotten to israel germany france england

3007
01:56:18,870 --> 01:56:17,199
ireland scotland uh

3008
01:56:22,149 --> 01:56:18,880
finland

3009
01:56:24,629 --> 01:56:22,159
so uh seeing the world uh hungary my

3010
01:56:26,870 --> 01:56:24,639
last foreign talk was bulgaria who would

3011
01:56:29,189 --> 01:56:26,880
ever how would i ever get the blackberry

3012
01:56:31,270 --> 01:56:29,199
yeah i spoke in

3013
01:56:33,910 --> 01:56:31,280
poland in warsaw

3014
01:56:36,870 --> 01:56:33,920
the warsaw ufo society had a big crowd

3015
01:56:38,629 --> 01:56:36,880
for me geographically how people respond

3016
01:56:40,709 --> 01:56:38,639
to your talks or the theories you're

3017
01:56:42,709 --> 01:56:40,719
bringing forward does it vary from

3018
01:56:43,669 --> 01:56:42,719
region to region at all you know due to

3019
01:56:45,030 --> 01:56:43,679
like

3020
01:56:46,790 --> 01:56:45,040
cultural nouns

3021
01:56:49,510 --> 01:56:46,800
i mean sometimes when talks have been

3022
01:56:52,229 --> 01:56:49,520
translated like i didn't speak in polish

3023
01:56:55,589 --> 01:56:52,239
you know but they seem remember i'm

3024
01:56:58,070 --> 01:56:55,599
talking about evidence not beliefs so

3025
01:57:01,189 --> 01:56:58,080
when i can show shaolin bluebook special

3026
01:57:03,589 --> 01:57:01,199
report 14 shows enough numbers and

3027
01:57:06,709 --> 01:57:03,599
numbers tell a story after all back up

3028
01:57:08,790 --> 01:57:06,719
what i say it doesn't seem to matter

3029
01:57:11,109 --> 01:57:08,800
they because the universal responses i

3030
01:57:13,430 --> 01:57:11,119
didn't know about that i never saw in

3031
01:57:15,510 --> 01:57:13,440
that report uh you know

3032
01:57:17,910 --> 01:57:15,520
not not standard so

3033
01:57:19,669 --> 01:57:17,920
it's very hard for people to reject what

3034
01:57:21,589 --> 01:57:19,679
you're saying when they have to admit no

3035
01:57:24,390 --> 01:57:21,599
i wasn't aware of that

3036
01:57:27,189 --> 01:57:24,400
and when you showed it to them and so

3037
01:57:30,070 --> 01:57:27,199
i found it's a way to see the world be a

3038
01:57:34,790 --> 01:57:32,310
who would have ever thought

3039
01:57:38,629 --> 01:57:36,310
my classmates at the university of

3040
01:57:40,870 --> 01:57:38,639
chicago would certainly have what do you

3041
01:57:42,470 --> 01:57:40,880
do instead i'm liking about flying

3042
01:57:43,830 --> 01:57:42,480
sausage

3043
01:57:46,470 --> 01:57:43,840
bag

3044
01:57:48,390 --> 01:57:46,480
so as a new generation of ufo

3045
01:57:51,109 --> 01:57:48,400
researchers start to crop up you know

3046
01:57:52,390 --> 01:57:51,119
i'm 33 so i'm no you know i'm no young

3047
01:57:54,550 --> 01:57:52,400
chicken but i'm also

3048
01:57:56,629 --> 01:57:54,560
sort of in that that midway point in my

3049
01:57:59,350 --> 01:57:56,639
research here what advice would you give

3050
01:58:02,070 --> 01:57:59,360
to people younger even younger than i am

3051
01:58:04,550 --> 01:58:02,080
in terms of the future of both the ufo

3052
01:58:07,030 --> 01:58:04,560
field and i guess humanity in general

3053
01:58:08,709 --> 01:58:07,040
what advice would you give them the hope

3054
01:58:11,030 --> 01:58:08,719
you know that this is a topic worth

3055
01:58:13,270 --> 01:58:11,040
pursuing well i think the biggest thing

3056
01:58:15,030 --> 01:58:13,280
is to make people aware that our

3057
01:58:17,589 --> 01:58:15,040
understanding of where we fit in the

3058
01:58:19,750 --> 01:58:17,599
scheme of things has changed drastically

3059
01:58:22,390 --> 01:58:19,760
frank drake was talking about maybe six

3060
01:58:25,510 --> 01:58:22,400
thousand planets that could send signals

3061
01:58:27,589 --> 01:58:25,520
that number today might be six billion

3062
01:58:30,470 --> 01:58:27,599
the fact that there is so many planets

3063
01:58:32,870 --> 01:58:30,480
is a total surprise to the astronomical

3064
01:58:35,109 --> 01:58:32,880
community and the fact that we have the

3065
01:58:37,830 --> 01:58:35,119
technology when the british astronomer

3066
01:58:41,350 --> 01:58:37,840
royal in 1956 was asked about space

3067
01:58:42,950 --> 01:58:41,360
travel by time magazine it's utter bilge

3068
01:58:44,709 --> 01:58:42,960
what good would it do

3069
01:58:46,070 --> 01:58:44,719
who would pay for it

3070
01:58:47,350 --> 01:58:46,080
all we need is better equipment for

3071
01:58:49,350 --> 01:58:47,360
astronomy that was the year before

3072
01:58:51,350 --> 01:58:49,360
sputnik and the field that's benefited

3073
01:58:52,870 --> 01:58:51,360
the most of course has been in the

3074
01:58:55,270 --> 01:58:52,880
astronomy

3075
01:58:57,750 --> 01:58:55,280
so our attitude about how old the

3076
01:59:00,390 --> 01:58:57,760
universe is how big the universe is how

3077
01:59:03,510 --> 01:59:00,400
many planets there are you know

3078
01:59:08,070 --> 01:59:03,520
bishop usher in 1650 or so was saying

3079
01:59:09,430 --> 01:59:08,080
that the world was created in 4004 bc uh

3080
01:59:11,270 --> 01:59:09,440
i don't think he said on thursday

3081
01:59:14,229 --> 01:59:11,280
afternoon but he went back through the

3082
01:59:16,070 --> 01:59:14,239
bible about begotting now we say well

3083
01:59:18,550 --> 01:59:16,080
they left six zeros out of that it's

3084
01:59:20,870 --> 01:59:18,560
four billion years ago that the earth

3085
01:59:23,350 --> 01:59:20,880
was created four and a half billion was

3086
01:59:25,669 --> 01:59:23,360
a half billion between friends uh

3087
01:59:27,510 --> 01:59:25,679
and so these concepts

3088
01:59:29,910 --> 01:59:27,520
the 1920s

3089
01:59:32,149 --> 01:59:29,920
the sun produces its energy by burning

3090
01:59:33,830 --> 01:59:32,159
gas what do we know about fusion but

3091
01:59:35,750 --> 01:59:33,840
diffusion is what produces the energy

3092
01:59:38,550 --> 01:59:35,760
throughout the universe all the stars

3093
01:59:41,350 --> 01:59:38,560
but there's an enormous difference and

3094
01:59:42,790 --> 01:59:41,360
so suddenly what seemed impossible is

3095
01:59:45,350 --> 01:59:42,800
now possible

3096
01:59:49,830 --> 01:59:45,360
space travel and it was just like a

3097
01:59:51,669 --> 01:59:49,840
great astronomer in 1902 uh 1903 uh

3098
01:59:53,270 --> 01:59:51,679
october that if there was one thing he

3099
01:59:55,189 --> 01:59:53,280
was sure man would never fly any

3100
01:59:57,510 --> 01:59:55,199
distance in a vehicle maybe with a

3101
01:59:59,669 --> 01:59:57,520
balloon but that was two months before

3102
02:00:01,750 --> 01:59:59,679
the wright brothers first flight we

3103
02:00:03,189 --> 02:00:01,760
assume what we don't know doesn't exist

3104
02:00:05,430 --> 02:00:03,199
there ain't nothing we don't know we're

3105
02:00:07,510 --> 02:00:05,440
smart guys you know with the cream of

3106
02:00:09,910 --> 02:00:07,520
the cream

3107
02:00:12,709 --> 02:00:09,920
and throughout history that's been shown

3108
02:00:15,750 --> 02:00:12,719
to be wrong jet engines for example were

3109
02:00:18,229 --> 02:00:15,760
left out of town base travel was thought

3110
02:00:20,229 --> 02:00:18,239
to be absurd and i've seen numbers you

3111
02:00:22,629 --> 02:00:20,239
know how how heavy a raqqa would have to

3112
02:00:25,109 --> 02:00:22,639
be to get a man to the moon a million

3113
02:00:26,550 --> 02:00:25,119
million tons would have to be but if you

3114
02:00:29,030 --> 02:00:26,560
make enough stupid assumptions you can

3115
02:00:32,070 --> 02:00:29,040
prove anything is impossible

3116
02:00:34,709 --> 02:00:32,080
well assume a single stage vehicle with

3117
02:00:36,709 --> 02:00:34,719
a very low exhaust velocity pretty soon

3118
02:00:38,790 --> 02:00:36,719
you got a huge rocket but that's not how

3119
02:00:40,709 --> 02:00:38,800
we do things engineer's job is to get it

3120
02:00:43,189 --> 02:00:40,719
done not to show you all the ways in

3121
02:00:46,790 --> 02:00:43,199
which it can't be done that's not much

3122
02:00:48,790 --> 02:00:46,800
use and so people often aren't aware of

3123
02:00:50,629 --> 02:00:48,800
their biases and prejudices getting in

3124
02:00:52,229 --> 02:00:50,639
the way of their evaluation thank

3125
02:00:53,589 --> 02:00:52,239
goodness there are people who say the

3126
02:00:55,510 --> 02:00:53,599
heck of that i mean

3127
02:00:58,229 --> 02:00:55,520
billy mitchell remember was court

3128
02:01:01,030 --> 02:00:58,239
martial he said said man would be

3129
02:01:02,709 --> 02:01:01,040
sinking ships with from airplanes

3130
02:01:05,430 --> 02:01:02,719
that was in the 20s

3131
02:01:08,629 --> 02:01:05,440
in 1941

3132
02:01:10,950 --> 02:01:08,639
late november there was a an article in

3133
02:01:13,189 --> 02:01:10,960
the program for the army navy football

3134
02:01:16,550 --> 02:01:13,199
game and showed a picture of the uss

3135
02:01:19,750 --> 02:01:16,560
arizona this huge battleship and in the

3136
02:01:22,070 --> 02:01:19,760
text it said nobody's ever sunk a

3137
02:01:24,310 --> 02:01:22,080
big ship from the sky that was eight

3138
02:01:27,750 --> 02:01:24,320
days before pearl harbor and there went

3139
02:01:31,109 --> 02:01:27,760
the uss arizona bottom killing i forget

3140
02:01:32,470 --> 02:01:31,119
1100 people something like that yeah

3141
02:01:34,830 --> 02:01:32,480
i don't know how to do it therefore it

3142
02:01:36,550 --> 02:01:34,840
can't be done right no

3143
02:01:37,430 --> 02:01:36,560
wrong

3144
02:01:39,750 --> 02:01:37,440
so

3145
02:01:42,629 --> 02:01:39,760
there there's a word of caution whenever

3146
02:01:44,390 --> 02:01:42,639
you find the noisy negatives

3147
02:01:45,910 --> 02:01:44,400
because it usually means refined sauces

3148
02:01:47,430 --> 02:01:45,920
can't be real because if they were i

3149
02:01:50,470 --> 02:01:47,440
don't know about it seems to be the

3150
02:01:52,229 --> 02:01:50,480
attitude right but when i i'm sneaky i

3151
02:01:54,629 --> 02:01:52,239
check my audiences when i talk about

3152
02:01:56,070 --> 02:01:54,639
this large-scale studies i ask how many

3153
02:01:57,910 --> 02:01:56,080
people have read them and i think it

3154
02:01:59,669 --> 02:01:57,920
sobers the audience to realize i'm not

3155
02:02:02,149 --> 02:01:59,679
the only one who hasn't read that stuff

3156
02:02:04,149 --> 02:02:02,159
none of these people have just

3157
02:02:06,310 --> 02:02:04,159
yeah maybe i better listen to this guy

3158
02:02:08,229 --> 02:02:06,320
and i show them the documents of the

3159
02:02:11,510 --> 02:02:08,239
reports or whatever so they know i'm not

3160
02:02:13,589 --> 02:02:11,520
just making it up out of my head and so

3161
02:02:15,990 --> 02:02:13,599
we need to be very careful about

3162
02:02:18,470 --> 02:02:16,000
presuming we know what the future is and

3163
02:02:19,830 --> 02:02:18,480
if you look around look at radio there

3164
02:02:21,910 --> 02:02:19,840
were people who were saying that would

3165
02:02:23,910 --> 02:02:21,920
never communicate any long distance with

3166
02:02:26,790 --> 02:02:23,920
radio what are you kidding and that goes

3167
02:02:28,709 --> 02:02:26,800
back to say 1900 and look where where

3168
02:02:30,790 --> 02:02:28,719
we've come from with that

3169
02:02:33,270 --> 02:02:30,800
and every direction you look you find

3170
02:02:36,629 --> 02:02:33,280
the progress comes from doing things

3171
02:02:39,350 --> 02:02:36,639
differently in an unpredictable way the

3172
02:02:41,350 --> 02:02:39,360
future is not an extrapolation of the

3173
02:02:43,830 --> 02:02:41,360
past you have to change how you do

3174
02:02:46,310 --> 02:02:43,840
things and if we forget that we step

3175
02:02:47,109 --> 02:02:46,320
into the potholes of it's impossible

3176
02:02:48,870 --> 02:02:47,119
yeah

3177
02:02:50,310 --> 02:02:48,880
what we really mean is i don't know how

3178
02:02:52,310 --> 02:02:50,320
to do that

3179
02:02:56,070 --> 02:02:52,320
but maybe somebody else does you know

3180
02:02:57,750 --> 02:02:56,080
like aliens and the kicker is again

3181
02:03:00,310 --> 02:02:57,760
if there's been intelligent life in the

3182
02:03:01,750 --> 02:03:00,320
neighborhood for a billion years why

3183
02:03:03,910 --> 02:03:01,760
would it be surprising that they're

3184
02:03:06,629 --> 02:03:03,920
doing things that we can't do

3185
02:03:08,629 --> 02:03:06,639
and not at business of how many places

3186
02:03:11,030 --> 02:03:08,639
there are we assume

3187
02:03:13,430 --> 02:03:11,040
because earth is 4.3 light years from

3188
02:03:15,189 --> 02:03:13,440
the next star over after the sun that

3189
02:03:17,189 --> 02:03:15,199
everybody is stuck with there's loads of

3190
02:03:19,589 --> 02:03:17,199
stars that have other stars less than a

3191
02:03:21,830 --> 02:03:19,599
light year away my favorite stars in the

3192
02:03:23,350 --> 02:03:21,840
whole case uh zeta one and zeta two

3193
02:03:26,229 --> 02:03:23,360
which are they're an eighth of a light

3194
02:03:27,990 --> 02:03:26,239
year apart for goodness sake you know 39

3195
02:03:29,910 --> 02:03:28,000
light years from here that gives you an

3196
02:03:31,990 --> 02:03:29,920
entirely different perspective we got

3197
02:03:34,310 --> 02:03:32,000
people saying anybody coming here would

3198
02:03:35,669 --> 02:03:34,320
have to come from a thousand light years

3199
02:03:37,189 --> 02:03:35,679
absurd

3200
02:03:39,270 --> 02:03:37,199
give me five

3201
02:03:42,149 --> 02:03:39,280
ten and twenty

3202
02:03:45,589 --> 02:03:42,159
exactly ah wow well stan i mean i'm

3203
02:03:47,350 --> 02:03:45,599
going to be seeing you in halifax nova

3204
02:03:49,830 --> 02:03:47,360
scotia uh this upcoming may i'll be

3205
02:03:52,069 --> 02:03:49,840
speaking at the esotericon where you're

3206
02:03:55,109 --> 02:03:52,079
going to be the keynote speaker at that

3207
02:03:56,390 --> 02:03:55,119
event as well so i guess you know for

3208
02:03:57,990 --> 02:03:56,400
any of our listeners who live in that

3209
02:03:59,669 --> 02:03:58,000
area i hope they'll come out and see you

3210
02:04:01,910 --> 02:03:59,679
give this talk do you have anything free

3211
02:04:04,390 --> 02:04:01,920
too i'm told yes

3212
02:04:06,550 --> 02:04:04,400
how rare is that it's yeah it's being

3213
02:04:09,189 --> 02:04:06,560
put on by your your nephew paul kimball

3214
02:04:10,709 --> 02:04:09,199
who does so much amazing work in halifax

3215
02:04:13,510 --> 02:04:10,719
you know with local government and was

3216
02:04:15,830 --> 02:04:13,520
able to obtain all these speakers to put

3217
02:04:17,910 --> 02:04:15,840
on a conference for free for the public

3218
02:04:19,830 --> 02:04:17,920
which i think is an incredible feat it's

3219
02:04:22,790 --> 02:04:19,840
my celebratory

3220
02:04:24,629 --> 02:04:22,800
swan song how's that absolutely one that

3221
02:04:27,030 --> 02:04:24,639
i'm so honored to be a part of and one i

3222
02:04:29,030 --> 02:04:27,040
hope everyone will come to well that

3223
02:04:31,830 --> 02:04:29,040
being said stan um one more time where

3224
02:04:34,149 --> 02:04:31,840
can we find all of your work your books

3225
02:04:38,149 --> 02:04:34,159
give that to us okay they're all listed

3226
02:04:41,750 --> 02:04:39,430
and you gotta spoil friedman

3227
02:04:43,750 --> 02:04:41,760
f-r-i-e-d-m-a-n

3228
02:04:45,669 --> 02:04:43,760
and i'll list my books and other sources

3229
02:04:47,270 --> 02:04:45,679
like blue book special report 14. i

3230
02:04:48,790 --> 02:04:47,280
don't believe it's proper for me to talk

3231
02:04:50,790 --> 02:04:48,800
about something and say well i don't

3232
02:04:52,870 --> 02:04:50,800
know where you can get that that's why

3233
02:04:55,350 --> 02:04:52,880
i've sold a lot of copies of special

3234
02:04:57,189 --> 02:04:55,360
report 14. and so if you want an

3235
02:04:59,430 --> 02:04:57,199
education incidentally in one of my

3236
02:05:02,149 --> 02:04:59,440
books top secret magic about the mj12

3237
02:05:04,550 --> 02:05:02,159
documents i list a dozen phd thesis that

3238
02:05:07,030 --> 02:05:04,560
were done uh more than 10 years ago so

3239
02:05:09,830 --> 02:05:07,040
they're more now so there is information

3240
02:05:10,550 --> 02:05:09,840
out there and i have loads of references

3241
02:05:28,310 --> 02:05:10,560
i

3242
02:05:29,350 --> 02:05:28,320
or any of the technology stuff or

3243
02:05:31,430 --> 02:05:29,360
whatever

3244
02:05:34,310 --> 02:05:31,440
why don't they put pictures of nuclear

3245
02:05:36,310 --> 02:05:34,320
rocket engines for goodness

3246
02:05:39,750 --> 02:05:36,320
they're available but

3247
02:05:40,709 --> 02:05:39,760
so my website has the information so uh

3248
02:05:42,950 --> 02:05:40,719
you know

3249
02:05:44,870 --> 02:05:42,960
i believe in interacting and

3250
02:05:47,109 --> 02:05:44,880
communicating i've been doing this for a

3251
02:05:48,470 --> 02:05:47,119
long time if i didn't enjoy what i was

3252
02:05:50,310 --> 02:05:48,480
doing i wouldn't be doing it you know

3253
02:05:51,589 --> 02:05:50,320
after the first 500 lectures you'd say

3254
02:05:51,930 --> 02:05:51,599
the hell

3255
02:05:53,430 --> 02:05:51,940
yep

3256
02:05:55,350 --> 02:05:53,440
[Laughter]

3257
02:05:57,910 --> 02:05:55,360
i'm over 700 now

3258
02:06:00,709 --> 02:05:57,920
yeah where we go well it's extremely

3259
02:06:02,629 --> 02:06:00,719
invigorating you know as someone who has

3260
02:06:04,629 --> 02:06:02,639
a couple times been like i want out of

3261
02:06:08,149 --> 02:06:04,639
this it's invigorating to see that it's

3262
02:06:10,229 --> 02:06:08,159
worth the study it's worth the research

3263
02:06:12,149 --> 02:06:10,239
to keep doing it to keep looking for

3264
02:06:14,310 --> 02:06:12,159
those answers no matter what it is like

3265
02:06:16,790 --> 02:06:14,320
you said the future is unpredictable and

3266
02:06:18,550 --> 02:06:16,800
i think that's extremely exciting so i

3267
02:06:19,990 --> 02:06:18,560
can't wait to see where it goes and i

3268
02:06:22,149 --> 02:06:20,000
know this isn't the last we've heard

3269
02:06:23,510 --> 02:06:22,159
from you stan it might be you know your

3270
02:06:25,990 --> 02:06:23,520
retirement from research but it

3271
02:06:29,109 --> 02:06:26,000
certainly isn't your retirement from the

3272
02:06:30,629 --> 02:06:29,119
field overall so i have to thank you so

3273
02:06:33,030 --> 02:06:30,639
much for coming on somewhere in the

3274
02:06:35,750 --> 02:06:33,040
skies today it was an immense pleasure

3275
02:06:37,030 --> 02:06:35,760
and honor and uh i will see you in may i

3276
02:06:37,830 --> 02:06:37,040
will see you there and there won't be

3277
02:06:42,360 --> 02:06:37,840
any

3278
02:06:56,069 --> 02:06:42,370
ground i hope at that point